South Tulsa Toll Bridge - Creek Nation (Again)

[Jitter Free]

The Muscogee (Creek) Nation is apparantely back at trying to build the South Tulsa Toll Bridge.  I heard they will be voting on whether or not to proceed with the toll bridge at this evening's meeting.  Here is the hyperlink:  http://mcnnc.com/images/stories/pdfagendas/040709r.pdf

The agenda doesn't list the toll bridge but does mention the Creek's entering into a contract for the purchase of property in Tulsa County and for the allocation of funds to purchase the property.  The agenda doesn't even tell you which tract of land it is.  I wish these agendas were more detailed. 

[TheArtist]

If its a potential moneymaker,,, I wonder whats keeping Tulsa from building it? Especially if it can make money off the suburbanites.

[Rico]

Let me guess.  Short term memory loss?

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=8599.0

[Jitter Free]

South Tulsa bridge proposal back in talks

By CLIFTON ADCOCK World Staff Writer
Published: 4/7/2009  7:35 PM
Last Modified: 4/7/2009  7:35 PM

A proposal for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation to purchase land near the Arkansas River that may eventually lead to a new bridge connecting south Tulsa and Jenks is back on the table.
A previous measure to purchase 42.5 acres of land near 121st Street and Yale Avenue stalled in December after Principal Chief A.D. Ellis asked National Council members to hold off until the tribe's new $190 million River Spirit Casino opened.

Four measures, three dealing with the purchase of three parcels of land and one dealing with funding, were scheduled to be considered Tuesday night at a joint meeting of the tribe's business and governmental and tribal affairs committees.

The measures, which would allow Ellis to execute a contract to purchase the property and appropriates almost $2.6 million for the land, would have to go through a full council meeting if it's passed out of committee.

There has been talk of a bridge near 121st Street and Yale Avenue for years, but it has been the subject of legal battles and opposition from citizens living in the area.

Ellis said he is remaining neutral on the issue, and that the project is a collaboration between the tribe's Trade and Commerce Authority and the city of Jenks.

Jenks Mayor Vic Vreeland said he knows nothing about a possible deal with the tribe or a tribal entity about eventually building a bridge linking Tulsa and Jenks.

"It's news to me," he said.

A previous plan by Jenks and Bixby that would have allowed a private company to build a toll bridge spanning the Arkansas River near 121st

Street and Yale Avenue met fierce opposition from residents in the area, and the city of Tulsa rejected the idea.

By CLIFTON ADCOCK World Staff Writer

[Townsend]

It's baaaaaack.


http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0410/721482.html

Tulsa - The Creek Nation has some plans that are reviving a controversy in south Tulsa.

The tribe wants to build a toll bridge over the Arkansas River, spanning from 131st Street in Jenks to 121st and Yale in Tulsa.

The Creeks have also purchased 42 acres of land in the area. 8 Talkback:
Click Here to Comment on this Story


The CEO of Trade and Commerce for the Creek Nation says plans are in the works to build retail and office space on that land.

Once complete, the investment could add up to one-billion dollars. But, some city councilors are against the project, saying it will cost the city in the long run.

"There is no zoning requirement," says Bill Christiansen. "They don't collect sales tax. They don't pay property tax to the school systems and it becomes a real liability for the citizens of Tulsa."

The Creek Nation says they have been working with Tulsa Mayor Dewey Bartlett to make sure both the tribe and the city will benefit from the project.

[Conan71]

The city will benefit...just like those even-handed gaming and tobacco compacts have been so great for the state.

There's already enough sales tax being sucked out of the local economy by the three major casinos as it is.  Pretty big risk on the Creek's part considering they were on the verge of layoffs at the Riverspirit due to plunging revenues there.

[Red Arrow]

The City of Tulsa should try to get some road improvement money out of the deal.

[RecycleMichael]

Tulsa should build a toll gate 20 feet past the bridge and charge twice the toll the bridge charges.

[Red Arrow]

Tulsa should build a toll gate 20 feet past the bridge and charge twice the toll the bridge charges.

Put it on Pike Pass so people don't have to dig out cash and Tulsa could make some money on that, probably enough to widen Yale and Delaware with some left over.  Drivers would complain ... almost every day.

[Red Arrow]

Even the people that live out that way now don't want this.

People north of the river sure, they never wanted it.

I haven't heard that people south of the river don't want to save about 14 miles per day.

(14 mi per day is from a former co-worker that lives south of the river.  I live near 111th & Memorial)

[godboko71]

Put it on Pike Pass so people don't have to dig out cash and Tulsa could make some money on that, probably enough to widen Yale and Delaware with some left over.  Drivers would complain ... almost every day.

I like this idea, they will complain and who cares the important thing is they will pay.

Much better then denying access. Better yet why doesn't the City of Tulsa work its way in the talks so things can be planned more fairly to everyone involved.

[Ibanez]

it is very simple what they can do, deny them curb cuts onto any city street.  you can own a plot of land anywhere in this city, but you have to get a permit to do a curb cut to join your lot to city streets, and the city could deny that request for any number of reasons.  they can sit there and build a bridge to no where.

the indian sympathizers can sit around and say they deserve to do whatever they want, but he who has the biggest gun wins and I don't want to hear crap about the past atrocity BS.  The indians aren't playing with the same set of rules and they are draining this city and state dry.  They need to get taxed tolled and levied as much as the next guy.

it isn't in this city's interest to extend infrastructure out that way.  We can't keep continuing the mistake made in 1966.  They only people pushing this crap are the Stan Frisbee/HBA cartel who own huge tracts of land out that way for subdivisions.  Even the people that live out that way now don't want this.

I live out that way and want it. A bridge in that location would save us quite a bit of time every morning and evening.

[waterboy]

Of course the Creeks want to build the bridge. Wouldn't it facilitate travel into their casino operations? Even more special if they collected tolls from people anxious to drop their spare cash at the casinos. They win even when they lose.

Another thread here pointed out that each time a city builds a new expressway, it loses 18% of its population. I would guess this bridge would also drain population as it does the same thing a new expressway does- make it easier to live outside the city.

But if the Creeks prevail, forget denying curb cuts. Even though Inteller is correct that it is a valid threat, it means lawsuits. Rather than a vengeful, spiteful act, forge a deal with them that cuts the city in for the projected losses in ad valorem tax we may suffer or increase the curb cut cost to reflect such losses.

[waterboy]

Legally you are probably correct. I am not a lawyer. However, pragmatically you could expect a lawsuit probably at the federal level alleging discrimination, restraint of trade or some other bs. The BIA has a special relationship with the Indians that Tulsa would have to face. We also have much to lose in PR and co-operation on other mutual interests.

But if you simply exercise your rights to increase a curb cut and have a valid basis for doing so (loss of potential tax revenue, increased infrastructure costs etc) it has the same effect as having denied them a cut with the upside that if you have to make the cut you are paid well for it. I prefer using that as an effort to discourage the bridge rather than stonewalling.

[waterboy]

That would certainly discourage the bridge.