TCC's Parking Lot Wasteland

[SXSW]

This picture shows just how desolate the area around TCC really is..

Photo by Bill Cobb (KCGridlock at Skyscraperpage.com)

TCC's new arts building has made an impact though, does anyone know if they plan on building more new facilities at the Metro campus?  I'd personally like to see TCC maybe consolidate its campuses into just three selling the northeast and midtown campuses to private companies and moving those programs to downtown.  Maybe sell the west campus as well and concentrate solely on the downtown and southeast campuses, already the two largest.  It would also be interesting to see TCC or a private developer build student housing in downtown on the parking lots around TCC.  Having a large community college presence could really liven up this part of downtown, with classes during the day and night and especially if there is housing so it's not exclusively a commuter school.  Build up OSU on the northside of downtown and TCC on the southside with the CBD, Blue Dome, and Brady in the middle, connected by a streetcar..   

This pic also does a nice job showing off the Osage Hills northwest of downtown, a beautiful area not many people know about mainly because it's so undeveloped..for now at least. 

[mobboss]

the huge lots between TCC and Boston ave methodist church were filled with a great warehouse buildings, a really unique cottage style apartment building, and an elementary school (which later became a minimum security prison) you can still see one apartment from the complex, it was moved to Baltimore ave between 17th and 18th street, its the pale green building on the right side of this link.,the complex was named Manhattan Court apartments

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=17th+and+baltimore,+tulsa+ok&ie=UTF8&split=0&gl=us&ei=97jfScOGNoHmlQfSv8TgDg&ll=36.137147,-95.986304&spn=0.009531,0.019569&z=16&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=36.13723,-95.986295&panoid=zbNtsnv6SRUo_dBPWgBHzw&cbp=12,92.26970913175434,,0,6.3326752221125355

[TheArtist]

I dont think TCC needs to sell any any campuses and dont think there is a snowballs chance in heck, of that happening.  However, it does appear that the new building is set up to expand out the back. The Boston Ave, side is open with windows etc. The opposite side is a blank, windowless wall. My hopeful read of that is that a future expansion will go on that side.

I really think we need to do some zoning downtown like they do in Denver which says, this street is to be an "A" pedestrian friendly street, this one a "B" car oriented street.

This way we dont end up with scattered, disconnected pockets and tiny islands of walk-ability. We generally build big stuff downtown so once something is there, its expensive to remove and redo or at least it takes decades and decades for the changes to happen.

Was walking downtown a few weeks ago showing my brother around who was in town. I had parked over in the area in front of Holy Family closer to Boston Ave...  We walked down Boston, then went towards main and the Mayo Hotel, started going back to the car. When we got to Bartlett Square, looked south towards where the Church and the car was, then looked down the street towards Boston Ave... The quicker way was south down main, but we both looked at each other and said the same thing... would rather take the long way that looked nice, down a couple of streets we had already been, than down the ugly main street lol.  

How the buildings, and or parking, on a street are, really does greatly influence where people want to go. This affects businesses, especially those on the ground floor. If your a lone business or couple of businesses on a street where nobody wants to go, your gonna hurt. Where as a larger collection of street level businesses on a pedestrian friendly street, reinforce each other. The more the better.

Thus having some sort of A and B street designations shows where you want your pedestrian friendly areas to go, and does a lot of other things. Keeps unpedestrian friendly developments from breaking up and hurting the streetscape, but still allows those developments to go downtown on the B streets. You as a "trailblazer" business or developer will know that the guy going in beside you or across from you will help and reinforce your business, not hurt it. Right now its a crap shoot, you have no idea.

We dont have to designate every street downtown at this time for there are large areas with basically nothing and you can leave those areas as blank slates for whatever. But once some streets are becoming obviously one way or another, help everyone out by designating them as such. Plus designate the obvious connector streets which connect the pedestrian friendly streets around downtown.

I have said this many times... If you try to make all your streets great streets, none of them will be. It makes perfect sense to designate A streets and B streets, even high density and medium density residential streets downtown. Kind of a set of Form Based Codes for the IDL.  

Looking at that blank slate of parking lots makes one wonder which streets would best be A streets and B streets with future development. Where could shared parking go etc. or do we just let things develop as they will without any direction and take our chances?

Btw, I think it would be a neat idea for the housing at OSU Tulsa to also be able to be used by TCC students if they want. Some metro TCC students use the housing at TU. So would make perfect sense if you were going to go ahead and transfer to OSU Tulsa to be able to use that housing. Plus since OSU has that new engineering/research building and emphasis, it would be great if the TCC metro campus also had the first year programs that dovetailed into that.  

[SXSW]

I'd like to see Boston and Boulder as 'retail' streets through downtown, and also Elgin, Denver, 6th, and 3rd.  Wherever a future streetcar goes so will retail, restaurants, etc.  I noticed that pattern on a recent trip to Portland where the area around the downtown streetcar was really active with shops and eateries and then blocks away from it were mostly office or residential with fewer people.  I see downtown Tulsa being the same way and those active streets will be ones with transit.

[pmcalk]

the huge lots between TCC and Boston ave methodist church were filled with a great warehouse buildings, a really unique cottage style apartment building, and an elementary school (which later became a minimum security prison) you can still see one apartment from the complex, it was moved to Baltimore ave between 17th and 18th street, its the pale green building on the right side of this link.,the complex was named Manhattan Court apartments

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=17th+and+baltimore,+tulsa+ok&ie=UTF8&split=0&gl=us&ei=97jfScOGNoHmlQfSv8TgDg&ll=36.137147,-95.986304&spn=0.009531,0.019569&z=16&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=36.13723,-95.986295&panoid=zbNtsnv6SRUo_dBPWgBHzw&cbp=12,92.26970913175434,,0,6.3326752221125355

FYI, the school, Horace Mann, was actually a Junior High School, at least until it became a minimum security facility in the late 70s (I believe it was a "pre-release" holding place).  I understand that it started as an elementary school in the early 1900s, but by the time the first class went through, it was converted to Junior High (I know of a woman who started there in 1st grade, and went straight through till 9th because it converted to junior high).  It was a terrible loss when it was torn down for nothing more than a surface lot.

[RecycleMichael]

My step-grandfather worked as the janitor for Horace Mann for 30 years.

It was cool to have a school downtown. 

[FOTD]

Bring back good pre-through high schools downtown if you want it inhabitable. Or, you can just make it possible by creating a district that encompasses Booker T and Carver and you can send your kids there IF you live within the downtown district....

[sgrizzle]

North campus won't be sold. There are a lot of political and financial reasons that campus is there, on top of the fact that TCC is trying to serve the communities. If any campus consists of students capable of driving around, it's SE. The also couldn't sell campuses for enough to rebuild those facilities elsewhere. I've never seen a midtown campus.

TCC staff has also said they are open to moving to structured parking, they just can't justify the cost. If someone like American Parking would build a garage and give free parking to TCC in exchange for land, then it would work out for all parties.

The new Metro campus building does allow westerly expansion and was supposed to also hold OETA studios but that got held up.

[cannon_fodder]

TCC student housing would be awesome downtown.  Or OSU student housing.  Langston.  Hell, TU and OU student housing with buses.  Whatever.

People downtown, not parking.

[sgrizzle]

TCC student housing would be awesome downtown.  Or OSU student housing.  Langston.  Hell, TU and OU student housing with buses.  Whatever.

People downtown, not parking.

OU and OSU are both eyeing student housing downtown.

[carltonplace]

Here is a picture of Boston Ave in 1978 (from the Beryl Ford Collection) That appears to have been taken from the Boston Avenue Methodist Church.

In the foreground is the Fred Jones Ford dealer ship, which had buildings on both sides of Boston Ave (you can see the roof tops). Just north is the Horace Mann middle school.

[Gold]

North campus won't be sold. There are a lot of political and financial reasons that campus is there, on top of the fact that TCC is trying to serve the communities. If any campus consists of students capable of driving around, it's SE. The also couldn't sell campuses for enough to rebuild those facilities elsewhere. I've never seen a midtown campus.

TCC staff has also said they are open to moving to structured parking, they just can't justify the cost. If someone like American Parking would build a garage and give free parking to TCC in exchange for land, then it would work out for all parties.

The new Metro campus building does allow westerly expansion and was supposed to also hold OETA studios but that got held up.

Funny how last year, TCC needed money for an Owasso campus, which was of course rejected by voters, and then, the money later appearedd for the same project;  also funny how they can give out free tuition; yet, they don't have money to be a good citizen of downtown and build a parking garage.

 

[Gold]

Here is a picture of Boston Ave in 1978 (from the Beryl Ford Collection) That appears to have been taken from the Boston Avenue Methodist Church.

In the foreground is the Fred Jones Ford dealer ship, which had buildings on both sides of Boston Ave (you can see the roof tops). Just north is the Horace Mann middle school.

I enjoyed the ghost flying out of the Mayo.    Thanks for the pic.

[Hoss]

Funny how last year, TCC needed money for an Owasso campus, which was of course rejected by voters, and then, the money later appearedd for the same project;  also funny how they can give out free tuition; yet, they don't have money to be a good citizen of downtown and build a parking garage.

 

It just amazes me how TCC needs all this money and then, after getting my yearly ad valorem breakdown from the county, their share of the ad valorem was right around 13 percent of what I pay.

[carltonplace]

I doesn't do much good to lament what is gone, but that Jr High School could have made a great collection of shops with a courtyard in the middle.