Please throw your guns and ammo in the container

[shadows]

Throw your guns an ammo in the dumpsters at the end of the block.
We have arranged these for your convenience
If you are caught with these after 9/1/09 your fine is.
50 thousand dollars and 10 year prison time.
If you have an invader in your home.
And he has a knife at your wife's throat.
Tell him that a Tulsa policeman will be here shortly.
He lives in Owasso and has the car and equipment with him.   
That more policemen live in the suburbs than the city.
That we have 780 officers but 400 are on call living out of town.
They could have to travel upto 60 miles to arrive. 
But just hold that knife because he is on his way.

What are the opinions of who would not throw their gun in the container even by executive orders? Its coming your way.

[Hoss]

Throw your guns an ammo in the dumpsters at the end of the block.
We have arranged these for your convenience
If you are caught with these after 9/1/09 your fine is.
50 thousand dollars and 10 year prison time.
If you have an invader in your home.
And he has a knife at your wife's throat.
Tell him that a Tulsa policeman will be here shortly.
He lives in Owasso and has the car and equipment with him.   
That more policemen live in the suburbs than the city.
That we have 780 officers but 400 are on call living out of town.
They could have to travel upto 60 miles to arrive. 
But just hold that knife because he is on his way.

What are the opinions of who would not throw their gun in the container even by executive orders? Its coming your way.

[jamesrage]

The anti-constitutionalists are not going to ban fire arms all at once. They are doing this little by little by making it more difficult to obtain a firearm,banning additional types of firearms through a series of different laws. That means on a national level enacting registrations,permits/licenses and taxes,bans on additional types of weapons and ammo besides machine guns, longer waiting periods, DC like fire arms storage laws, perhaps even requiring classes before they can apply for a license, and then ban what ever types of fire arms are left and start rounding up fire arms. They even have the media to continue to demonize the 2nd amendment with school shootings and other crime stories. I do not see this happening all at ounce during Obama's presidency or even the next presidency. They will probably do something like a ban is the guise of protecting fire arms owners like they did with machine guns with the "Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986".

[Wilbur]

Throw your guns an ammo in the dumpsters at the end of the block.
We have arranged these for your convenience
If you are caught with these after 9/1/09 your fine is.
50 thousand dollars and 10 year prison time.
If you have an invader in your home.
And he has a knife at your wife's throat.
Tell him that a Tulsa policeman will be here shortly.
He lives in Owasso and has the car and equipment with him.   
That more policemen live in the suburbs than the city.
That we have 780 officers but 400 are on call living out of town.
They could have to travel upto 60 miles to arrive. 
But just hold that knife because he is on his way.

What are the opinions of who would not throw their gun in the container even by executive orders? Its coming your way.

Wow!  I'm shocked to know Tulsa doesn't have any officers on duty.  None.  They all have to be called at home to respond to calls.  That's weird.

[cannon_fodder]

jamesrage is correct.   You do not take away a right all at once.  First you make it illegal to own cannons, tanks - things no one has any real business owning.  Also make sure that certain people can not own firearms.  Then you ban certain larger calibre weapons like .50 and "sniper" rifles as well as full auto weapons.  Then you go after firearms that are used in crimes and require registration of hand guns.   Then you go after guns that people see on the news, that look mean ("assault" rifles).  Then you start reducing the capabilities of firearms that are left:  smaller capacity magazines, limited barrel adjustments, and of course still more bans and registration.  Allowing cities to determine what guns are safe for their populations to make neighborhoods safer.  Any bullets that are effective against armored authorities should be banned.

Which is where we will be by the end  of Obama 1 I predict.

Then you require all firearms to be federally license for safety and to enforce the laws in place.  Then just keep adding to the regulation.  No one needs a pistol that can only more than 10 shots, 8, 6, 4 shots.  No one needs a semi-automatic rifle.  Shotguns with barrels less than 30" are not as good for hunting and are not really needed.  Pistols over 9mm are only for killing people. 

Take your pick.  Any one right is not that important.   But each new regulation takes away the right a little bit and sets up the next one.  Before too long it isn't too hard to ban this gun,that type of gun, register this, that, sneak in a registration tax to cover the cost and soon it is impractical to own a weapon in most places.   Keep that in place for 10-20 years and it becomes easier to eventually just do away with it.

That's my fear.

[nathanm]

That's my fear.

Which seems unfounded at the moment. Despite the right wing talk radio hosts going on about Obama stealin' ur guns, I have yet to see any action or even any serious attempt towards action on that front, much to the chagrin of many left wingers.

If there were any reasonable way to prevent trafficking in guns between states, I would be all for modifying the second amendment to allow individual states to decide how to handle guns. If they want to ban them, fine. If they want to allow their cities to make the decision themselves, fine. If they want to have an unfettered free for all, great; that's what I'd choose. I'm for more self determination in most instances.

[YoungTulsan]

The powers and limitations in the Constitution are supposed to apply above any federal, state, or local authority.

The tenth amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

That gives States the right to pass laws and orders regarding everything NOT covered or limited by the Constitution.  The second amendment guarantees the right to bear arms.  Therefore, States do not have the right to selectively take away that right on a State by State basis.  There would have to be a new amendment to the Constitution passed repealing or modifying the second amendment in order for individual States or municipalities to constitutionally be able to take away that right from its citizens.

You need 3/4ths of all States on board to successfully amend the Constitution.  As long as there are 13 States who do not wish to have the second amendment repealed or altered, this will never happen, at least in a legal and constitutional manner.

[nathanm]

Therefore, States do not have the right to selectively take away that right on a State by State basis.  There would have to be a new amendment to the Constitution passed repealing or modifying the second amendment in order for individual States or municipalities to constitutionally be able to take away that right from its citizens.

If there were any reasonable way to prevent trafficking in guns between states, I would be all for modifying the second amendment to allow individual states to decide how to handle guns.

[YoungTulsan]

Check my edit

[shadows]

States rights, assumed to be included  in the 10th amendment, was settled beginning in the war of 1860 whereas the Edict of Emancipation was not introduced until 1862 as the war faltered.  Cardozo reaffirmed in 1936 that by adsorption the states rights were limited.  Also the phrase "or to the people" has never been determine.

The Federal Code limits any gun that can be easily converted to a full machine gun is restricted from ownership.  One gunsmith converted a lever action saddle gun into a full machine gun.

Several articles have appeared in magazines concerning the presidents comments on gun control.

Slow on my math.  If you had 4,000 city employees and 2,000 lived in the suburbs, and all worked eight hour shifts, how many would be on duty in the city at any given time..       

[YoungTulsan]

They would work their shift when they are scheduled, and the place they go home while not at work has zero effect on anything.

[Wilbur]

States rights, assumed to be included  in the 10th amendment, was settled beginning in the war of 1860 whereas the Edict of Emancipation was not introduced until 1862 as the war faltered.  Cardozo reaffirmed in 1936 that by adsorption the states rights were limited.  Also the phrase "or to the people" has never been determine.

The Federal Code limits any gun that can be easily converted to a full machine gun is restricted from ownership.  One gunsmith converted a lever action saddle gun into a full machine gun.

Several articles have appeared in magazines concerning the presidents comments on gun control.

Slow on my math.  If you had 4,000 city employees and 2,000 lived in the suburbs, and all worked eight hour shifts, how many would be on duty in the city at any given time..       

The absolute vast majority work regular 'bankers' hours.

[jamesrage]

Which seems unfounded at the moment. Despite the right wing talk radio hosts going on about Obama stealin' ur guns, I have yet to see any action or even any serious attempt towards action on that front, much to the chagrin of many left wingers.

If there were any reasonable way to prevent trafficking in guns between states, I would be all for modifying the second amendment to allow individual states to decide how to handle guns. If they want to ban them, fine. If they want to allow their cities to make the decision themselves, fine. If they want to have an unfettered free for all, great; that's what I'd choose. I'm for more self determination in most instances.

Lets look at some of the most liberal states gun laws regarding registrations,permits and waiting periods in alphabetical order.(Some of these states also have back ground checks, weapon limits and many other unconstitutional things besides the waiting periods,permits and registrations)


California Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=CA

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes

California - State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a "handgun safety certificate" (like a license) prior to purchasing a handgun. The handgun buyer must pass a written safety test and a hands-on safety demonstration and provide fingerprints and proof of residency. The certificate is also required for anyone who wishes to be "loaned" a handgun outside of the presence of the owner.

snip..

REGISTRATION
Are all guns registered with law enforcement? Partial

California - State law only requires registration of assault weapons. No state requirement that other firearms be registered.

snip..

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

California - State law requires a 10-day waiting period for all gun sales. This 10-day period is used by law enforcement to run a criminal background check to make sure the gun buyer is not prohibited from acquiring firearms. The 10-days also serves as a "cooling off" period to help prevent crimes of passion

Connecticut Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=CT

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes

Connecticut - State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a license prior to purchasing a handgun. The handgun buyer must pass a safety course safety test and provide fingerprints. The license is also generally required for anyone who wishes to be "loaned" a handgun outside of the presence of the owner. Also see: Safety Training.

snip..

REGISTRATION
Are all guns registered with law enforcement? Partial

Connecticut - State law only requires registration of assault weapons.

snip..

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Partial

Connecticut - State law requires all handgun buyers to first obtain a pistol permit or eligibility certificate, which can take up to 90 days.

There is a 14-day waiting period and background check for buyers of rifles and shotguns, but only if purchased from a licensed gun dealer, and only unless the buyer does not have a pistol permit, eligibility certificate, or hunting license.

Florida Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=FL

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

State law requires a 3-day waiting period for all handgun sales by licensed dealers. Counties may extend the waiting period to 5-days and apply it to long guns and sales by non-licensed dealers at gun shows and flea markets.


Hawaii Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=HI

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes

State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a license prior to purchasing a handgun. The handgun buyer must pass a written safety test and a hands-on demonstration including firing the handgun and provide fingerprints. The license is also generally required for anyone who wishes to be "loaned" a handgun outside of the presence of the owner. Also see: Safety Training.

snip..

REGISTRATION
Are all guns registered with law enforcement? Partial

Hawaii - State law requires gun owners to register any firearm they obtain, but this only applied to guns obtained after the law was enacted.

snip..

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

Hawaii - State law requires a 14 to 20-day waiting period to obtain a license to purchase any handgun.


Illinois Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=IL

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes

Illinois: State law requires gun buyers to obtain a license (FOID card) prior to purchasing a firearm. The FOID card is also required of anyone owning a firearm.

snip..

REGISTRATION
Are all guns registered with law enforcement? Partial

Illinois: While there is no state requirement that gun owners register specific firearms, it is generally illegal to possess a firearm without a license

snip..

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

State law requires a 72-hour waiting period for all handgun sales and a 24-hour waiting period on all long gun sales. The waiting period is used by law enforcement to run a criminal background check to make sure the handgun buyer is not prohibited from acquiring firearms. In addition, state law requires gun buyers to obtain a Firearm Owner's Identification Card (FOID), before purchasing a firearm. Law enforcement may take up to 30 days to complete a background check on FOID Card applicants.


Iowa Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=IA

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes

State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a permit from local law enforcement prior to purchasing a handgun.

snip..

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

State law requires a 3-day waiting period for all handgun sales.


Maryland Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=MD


LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes

State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a permit-to-purchase from law enforcement prior to purchasing a handgun or assault weapon.

snip...

REGISTRATION
Are all guns registered with law enforcement? Partial

State law only requires registration of assault weapons.

snip..

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

Maryland: State law requires a 7-day waiting period for all handgun or assault weapon sales.


Massachusetts Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=MA

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes

State law requires anyone buying or owning a firearm to obtain a license from law enforcement. Handgun buyers must take a safety course and provide fingerprints. The license is also required for anyone who wishes to be "loaned" a handgun outside of the presence of the owner. The permit process allows law enforcement 40 days to do a more complete background check.

snip..

REGISTRATION
Are all guns registered with law enforcement? Partial


Massachusetts: While there is no state requirement that gun owners register specific firearms, it is generally illegal to possess a firearm without a license.

snip..

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

State law requires handgun purchasers to first obtain a permit from law enforcement, which can take up to 40-days.

Michigan Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=MI

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes


State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a permit from local law enforcement prior to purchasing a handgun. But selling a handgun to someone without a permit is only a simple misdemeanor, which undermines the law and makes it easy to ignore. To obtain the permit, handgun buyers must correctly answer 70% of the questions on a written safety test, but the wrong answers are pointed out and they are allowed to retake the test if they fail. Fingerprints are required to obtain a permit to purchase. CCW permit holders are exempt from having to obtain a handgun purchase permit.

snip..

REGISTRATION
Are all guns registered with law enforcement? Partial

Michigan: State law requires anyone owning a handgun who lives in an area with a police department to present the handgun to local police and a record is sent to state police, but failure to comply is just a $50 fine.


Minnesota Gun Laws

http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=MN


WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

Minnesota: State law requires a 7-day waiting period for all handgun or assault weapon sales by federally licensed dealers unless the buyer has a state permit (which takes 7 days)


Nebraska Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=NE


LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes


State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a handgun certificate from law enforcement prior to purchasing a handgun. The permit only involves a background check - no safety training or fingerprints are required. Law enforcement may take up to 3 days for the background check on the permit applicant. The permit is valid for three years.

snip..

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

State law requires a 2-day waiting period for all handgun sales.


New Jersey Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=NJ

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes

State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a license from law enforcement prior to purchasing a handgun and long gun buyers must have a firearms identification card. The license only involves background checks and fingerprinting, no safety training is required. The license is also generally required for anyone who wishes to be "loaned" a handgun outside of the presence of the owner. The license is valid for up to 90 days, and may be renewed for an additional 90 days. The fees are $49 for fingerprinting, $2 for a handgun permit and $5 for an identification card. The permit is normally processed in less than one month, or less than six months if additional research is needed. While only handguns require a handgun permit, a firearms identification card is required to receive a long gun and that card is valid until/unless revoked.

snip..

REGISTRATION
Are all guns registered with law enforcement? Partial

State law only requires registration of assault weapons.

snip..

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

State law requires handgun buyers to first obtain a permit to purchase from law enforcement. Law enforcement normally processes the application in less than 30-days.

New York Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=NY
LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes

New York: State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a license from law enforcement prior to purchasing their first handgun - this is a license to "possess" not just to purchase. Applicants must be 21. The license only involves a background check and fingerprinting, no safety training is required. The license is also generally required to be "loaned" a handgun outside of the presence of the owner. License applications may take up to six months. The license is generally good until revoked, except in New York City, Nassau/Suffolk/Westchester counties which have fixed license period. License fees vary but are at least $74, the cost of fingerprint processing.

snip..

REGISTRATION
Are all guns registered with law enforcement? Partial

State law requires anyone owning a handgun to obtain a license listing each handgun owned.

snip..

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

State law requires up to 6-months to obtain a license to purchase any handgun.


North Carolina Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=NC

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes


North Carolina: State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a permit from law enforcement prior to purchasing a handgun. The permit only involves a background check - no safety training or fingerprints are required. Law enforcement may take up to 30 days for the background check on the permit applicant. The permit is valid for five years. A separate handgun permit must be acquired for each handgun purchase, CCW permit holders are exempt from this requirement.

snip..

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Partial

North Carolina: State law requires handgun buyers to first obtain a handgun permit. Law enforcement may take up to 30 days to process the permit and run a background check. The permit is valid for five years, but may only be used to purchase one handgun - to buy another handgun an individual must secure another permit. There is no state waiting period on rifle or shotgun sales.

Rhode Island Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=RI
LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? Yes

State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a license from law enforcement prior to purchasing a handgun. The handgun buyer must either take a safety course or pass a written safety test. No fingerprints are required.

snip..

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

State law requires a 7-day waiting period for all handgun sales.

South Dakota Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=SD

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

State law requires a 48-hour waiting period for all handgun sales by federally licensed dealers.

Washington Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=WA
WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Partial

Washington: State law requires a 5-day waiting period for all handgun sales by federally licensed dealers unless local law enforcement completes a background check and approves a sale in less time. The 5-day period is used by law enforcement to run a criminal background check to make sure the handgun buyer is not prohibited from acquiring firearms. The 5-day period can be extended up to 60 days for new state residents.


Wisconsin Gun Laws
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=WI
WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? Yes

State law requires a 48-hour waiting period for all handgun sales by federally licensed dealers.

[RecycleMichael]

Excellent research, James.

[nathanm]

Lets look at some of the most liberal states gun laws regarding registrations,permits and waiting periods in alphabetical order.(Some of these states also have back ground checks, weapon limits and many other unconstitutional things besides the waiting periods,permits and registrations)

You say they are unconstitutional, yet courts have ruled that background checks and limits on ownership are not in fact unconstitutional.

Regardless, as a response to my statement that Obama is in fact not after your guns, or at least has yet to take any action as President that would give a reasonable person that impression, your post was completely off point.

It is nice to know that there is such wide variation in gun laws in the various states. I couldn't care less if Californians desire to make it difficult to own handguns. I don't live there. The people that do should have the right of self-determination in that respect, so long as they do it Constitutionally. Whether or not you or I like it, courts at all levels have ruled that the laws on the books are Constitutional unless they effectively ban all firearm ownership.

As I mentioned earlier, I think the second amendment should be changed. Not to ban gun ownership, but to allow people the right of self determination on the subject, and to explicitly guarantee that a lawful owner of a gun in one state can transport it through another state while on a journey, even if they temporarily cease their travel to eat, sleep, or sightsee.

What would be really nice is if the feds would step in and force states to recognize CCW permits from other states when the owner of the gun is passing through with it.