$38 million development being proposed across from BOK Center

[dbacks fan]

And they are not putting that information on the very first disclosure/rfp/plat/survey shared with potential purchasers/developers?   

I suppose they run under what used to be the alley?  I have to say I am pretty skeptical of that story.  Do you have a source?   Why would a huge electrical feeder line run through the middle of that block?  Where does it come from and go from there?  Under the bus station and under the BOK drive-through?  That would be odd, to say the least. 

If you look on Google earth there is a PSO substation at the corner of 1st & Denver. If you go along the corridor of Denver to Cheyenne from 1st down to 12th street between Cheyenne and Carson ther is another sub station. That station appears to be fed by the overhead lines that run west along 12th to the river and east to Detroit and then north to 11th street and then east along 11th street. It appears that there could be a major feeder along that corridor that feeds the undergound service for those buildings.

Form 1st and Denver it goes north to Archer along Denver and then spreads out from there. I'm not an expert but it would make sense to take the high tension lines running east and west along the 11th & 12th street corridor, run it though the sub to step the power down for service downtown and then bring it through another sub step it up and go back overhead.

[Oil Capital]

If you look on Google earth there is a PSO substation at the corner of 1st & Denver. If you go along the corridor of Denver to Cheyenne from 1st down to 12th street between Cheyenne and Carson ther is another sub station. That station appears to be fed by the overhead lines that run west along 12th to the river and east to Detroit and then north to 11th street and then east along 11th street. It appears that there could be a major feeder along that corridor that feeds the undergound service for those buildings.

Form 1st and Denver it goes north to Archer along Denver and then spreads out from there. I'm not an expert but it would make sense to take the high tension lines running east and west along the 11th & 12th street corridor, run it though the sub to step the power down for service downtown and then bring it through another sub step it up and go back overhead.

Very interesting.  But what wouldn't make much sense is running it through the middle of blocks, underneath buildings.  Perhaps the line pre-exists the buildings on top of it, but surely they would have an easement on the whole line...  Seems more likely that the line would run under Cheyenne.

[dbacks fan]

Very interesting.  But what wouldn't make much sense is running it through the middle of blocks, underneath buildings.  Perhaps the line pre-exists the buildings on top of it, but surely they would have an easement on the whole line...  Seems more likely that the line would run under Cheyenne.

I tend to think that they went down the alley between Denver and Cheyenne since most of the buildings along that path have their utility entrance in the alley for gas and electric. I remember this from my days of delivering freight downtown in the 80's. I could be wrong, but I remember almost taking the electric meter off with my truck one time since you had to leave the alley passable and park as close to the build as you could.

[cannon_fodder]

Gaspar has never been wrong on a development issue that I recall, so I'll trust him on this one.

My question then becomes:  why not some below ground parking (as the line allows) and some above ground parking?  Below grade parking is more expensive anyway.  It's pretty common in downtown areas to have the ground floor and 2nd floor of a hotel be the entrance/restaurant or whatever, and then floors 3-8 be a parking garage with a ramp just off the drop-off area.  The ramp is basically hidden on the side of the building and the facade blends in with the hotel.  Thus making the hotel look bigger than it is.

At least, that's how the Adams Mark in KC is.  A Ramada in downtown Minneapolis.  And plenty of others I haven't ever stayed at.

[FOTD]

Nobody likes my garage elevator stacking suggestion?

[DowntownNow]

Those same development issues regarding utility lines came up during the Heavenly Hospitality negotiations back in 2006 as well.  They had asked TDA to incur the expense in moving all the lines that would hamper development as well as prepare the site for construction. 

Be surprised if that knowledge from then was not made a part of the subsequent RFP and later the Jones Lang LaSalle efforts.

Interestingly enough however, much of downtown that was previously razed and later made surface parking created areas of significant fill underneath those areas.  In some case as much as 10-12 feet of fill where basements used to be.  Its conceivable that since that fill would have to be removed anyway for new structures, you could do some form of underground parking. 

If the plan calls for the type of development highlighted in the article for One Development, I would think all the parking they could get would not only provide for what they need but also become a revenue generator, leasing space for public events at the BOK that are closer in proximity than the City's claimed 'plenty of parking within a 10 minute walk.'

[Oil Capital]

I tend to think that they went down the alley between Denver and Cheyenne since most of the buildings along that path have their utility entrance in the alley for gas and electric. I remember this from my days of delivering freight downtown in the 80's. I could be wrong, but I remember almost taking the electric meter off with my truck one time since you had to leave the alley passable and park as close to the build as you could.

That makes complete sense for the distribution line, but we are talking here about a "huge electrical feeder line".

[Oil Capital]

Gaspar has never been wrong on a development issue that I recall, so I'll trust him on this one.

My question then becomes:  why not some below ground parking (as the line allows) and some above ground parking?  Below grade parking is more expensive anyway.  It's pretty common in downtown areas to have the ground floor and 2nd floor of a hotel be the entrance/restaurant or whatever, and then floors 3-8 be a parking garage with a ramp just off the drop-off area.  The ramp is basically hidden on the side of the building and the facade blends in with the hotel.  Thus making the hotel look bigger than it is.

At least, that's how the Adams Mark in KC is.  A Ramada in downtown Minneapolis.  And plenty of others I haven't ever stayed at.

Perhaps he's right.  Crazier things have been done in Tulsa.  If so, that means we have a bus station built over a utility easement (and BOK has a drive-through bank facility built over a utility easement). 

But back to the real point.  I guess nobody has heard anything about this project; the 21-day negotiation period with the TDA?  Any extension of the 21-day period?  If there has been no extension, I guess we can presume it's dead?

[OpenYourEyesTulsa]

Is this project still alive?  It does not seem like they have done anything yet.

[RecycleMichael]

The same people are also developing the Village on Main in Jenks.

Jenks seems easier to work with.

[Conan71]

The same people are also developing the Village on Main in Jenks.

Jenks seems easier to work with.

Therefore the aquarium, therefore Riverwalk Crossing, therefore the other large M.U.D. planned south of the turnpike, therefore the Creeks probably developing everything south of 71st on the east side of the river, etc.

Yup, much easier to work with than our "visionary" elected officials and bureaucrats in downtown Tulsa. No Kirby, that was not a slap on V-2025 or anything related to it- I'm referring to the close-minded mentality which has continually sent things like the aquarium to Jenks. 

[waterboy]

Therefore the aquarium, therefore Riverwalk Crossing, therefore the other large M.U.D. planned south of the turnpike, therefore the Creeks probably developing everything south of 71st on the east side of the river, etc.

Yup, much easier to work with than our "visionary" elected officials and bureaucrats in downtown Tulsa. No Kirby, that was not a slap on V-2025 or anything related to it- I'm referring to the close-minded mentality which has continually sent things like the aquarium to Jenks. 

Just wanted to note that many of these hard to work with complaints are about non-elected officials. Especially in the Aquarium fiasco. It is often defensive behaviours by Authority board members who have totally non public concerns and very little oversight. I am not so sure Jenks has the ability to avoid the same process.

[Wilbur]

Just wanted to note that many of these hard to work with complaints are about non-elected officials. Especially in the Aquarium fiasco. It is often defensive behaviours by Authority board members who have totally non public concerns and very little oversight. I am not so sure Jenks has the ability to avoid the same process.

Sorry, but a good friend of mine worked on the Aquarium for years trying to get it into Tulsa, and the problem was elected officials in Tulsa.  It was all set to go into 71st and the river when a meeting was called hastily to "discuss finances".  All of a sudden, a certain Mayor puts out a motion to kill the entire program, with absolutely no warning to the Aquarium folks, and the project gets nixed.

Tulsa never wanted the Aquarium, now look what it's done for Jenks.

[USRufnex]

^^^Who needs an aquarium when you can build a natatorium?.... oh, wait.

[sgrizzle]

Is this project still alive?  It does not seem like they have done anything yet.

Call TDA and tell them to get off their ____es