$38 million development being proposed across from BOK Center

[waterboy]

That would be at 73rd and Riverside, EAST of Riverside Drive.  I thought we were speaking of 71st and Riverside, and actually adjacent to the river.

Different locations, different time periods.

Lost in all this discussion is the point I wanted to make (which is topic related) that it is not necessarily elected city or county politicians or functionaries who make it difficult to do business in Tulsa. Its usually unelected members of boards and authorities who have little oversight but tremendous decisionmaking power. If you don't know these folks or have something they want, you'll likely have difficulty getting things done. Artist may be finding that out.

[Gaspar]

Everyone wants development, but no one wants responsibility.
Round and round we go.

[FOTD]

Everyone wants development, but no one wants responsibility.
Round and round we go.

Responsibility? Like building future budget busters like entertainment centers? Development best happen soon before the BOK becomes the Pelli elephant. Window of opportunity closes quicker with the coming commercial property financing debacle. The world changed.

[MacGyver]

Responsibility? Like building future budget busters like entertainment centers? Development best happen soon before the BOK becomes the Pelli elephant. Window of opportunity closes quicker with the coming commercial property financing debacle. The world changed.

Considering the location, this is not is not a speculative strip mall in Outer Glenpool...

[FOTD]

Considering the location, this is not is not a speculative strip mall in Outer Glenpool...

So, it's a dead cinch?

[SXSW]

I've always envisioned that lot as a residential complex with ample retail/restaurant space along Denver and 3rd streets.  Something like this full-block loft development in downtown Dallas, where the parking is in an interior garage (could also include public parking) and there are 3-4 floors of apartments above the retail:


Instead of CVS at the corner of 3rd & Denver though you have a local restaurant where you can go have dinner/drinks before or after the game or concert at BOK across the street.  I would think the apartments would be in high demand because of their location within the CBD and views of the BOK to the west and skyline to the east and south.  Build the new convention hotel where the library sits now and move the library over to the east end/Blue Dome.

[SXSW]

I'm not an advocate of surrounding the BOK with chain restaurants and would want the restaurant in whatever development occurs at the northeast corner of 3rd & Denver to be local but a Rock Bottom Brewery would be a good fit on that parking lot at the southeast corner sandwiched between the cool old building at 3rd & Cheyenne and the bus depot.  Then you would have two restaurants right there at 3rd & Denver creating a more welcoming gateway eastward into downtown than the two parking lots currently..

Urban Rock Bottom in Minneapolis

[Red Arrow]

SXSW,

I believe anything brewed on site for sale would be limited to 3.2% by weight or less.

Any one remember the actual law?  Gotta love Oklahoma alcohol laws.

[cannon_fodder]

SXSW,

I believe anything brewed on site for sale would be limited to 3.2% by weight or less.

Any one remember the actual law?  Gotta love Oklahoma alcohol laws.

That is correct.  The bill is from 1992 (House Bill 2196) and was initially defeated, but reintroduced and passed.  The intent of the law is buried in the permitting law here:
http://www.oscn.net/applications/OCISWeb/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=438387

It crushes my soul every time I read an article about beer and Oklahoma is mentioned, because it is always in a laughing manner.  The 3.2 laws in general are stupid.  Add the no alcohol sales on Sundays.  Then, just for fun . . . when someone asks why we have so many liquor stores answer it's because that's the only place we can buy real beer, wine, or liquor and hear them chuckle. 

"Low-point beer" means and includes beverages containing more than one-half of one percent (1/2 of 1%) alcohol by volume, and not more than three and two-tenths percent (3.2%) alcohol by weight, including but not limited to beer or cereal malt beverages obtained by the alcoholic fermentation of an infusion of barley or other grain, malt or similar products;

Poor, poor me.
- - -

Back on topic:

My hope is for a development like SXSW pictures with the addition of a tower of some kind for a hotel (if only marginally taller than the rest).  But, I'm afraid, my hopes of any development in the near future are fading quickly.  If the initial excitement of the center didn't work, and the success in the first year didn't prove the concept, and it appears the City/TDA isn't particularly motivated to get the ball rolling:  I have to wonder if it will happen.

I just really hope nothing half assed goes in.  I'd LOVE to see mixed use residential/retail/hotel.   It would help create a self feeding loop downtown.  There is more stuff, so more people want to live there, so there can be more stuff.  At the moment, retail seems to be the major holdup.

[PonderInc]

Love the picture with the urban CVS in it.  I'm not a fan of chains of any sort, but an urban CVS (or the like) somewhere downtown would be great for Tulsa.  It would not ony serve the thousands of downtown workers (who could conveniently get their prescriptions filled), it could serve as a "stepping stone" grocery store for downtown residents.

I've always felt that you don't have a healthy downtown unless you have some practical stores: grocery, hardware, pharmacy, shoes, clothing, etc.  They don't have to be huge chains...just useful to the people who live nearby. 

Signs of an unhealthy downtown: only 8-5 businesses, antique stores, or using storefront property for storage.  (Like our "Renburgs Parking Garage" on Main!)  (At least they don't store hay in it... like in some small towns!)

[OpenYourEyesTulsa]

My hope is for a development like SXSW pictures with the addition of a tower of some kind for a hotel (if only marginally taller than the rest).  But, I'm afraid, my hopes of any development in the near future are fading quickly.  If the initial excitement of the center didn't work, and the success in the first year didn't prove the concept, and it appears the City/TDA isn't particularly motivated to get the ball rolling:  I have to wonder if it will happen.

What can we do to motivate things?  There needs to be some kind of incentive to get developers interested in downtown.  Maybe a tax credit or Vision 2025 part 2.  We have a lot of people here in Tulsa that have the capital to invest in putting businesses downtown but they are mostly waiting for someone else to make a move and sitting on the land or property.  They don't want to deal with the risk and they are not motivated.   The Mayo Hotel would not be reborn without the incentives of Vision 2025.

[TheArtist]

Apparently I am not as full of despair as many on here seem to be about downtowns prospects. I think we have crossed over to the point where downtown is going to continue to improve.  There are several projects still underway that will add to the "critical mass" , a number that will start within the next year or two, and surely more to come. I am willing to bet we will continue to see more small businesses move in, and a smattering of smaller residential projects come into downtown next year as well.  Downtown is no longer getting worse, or even holding steady. Its definitely on the upswing, though not at the speed we would like. But we are in a recession right now and downtown is still coasting upward, and once things get better with the economy, I am sure the rate of growth/improvements downtown will get better as well.

[FOTD]

OH MY! With Suzanne Stewie gone after inflating her bureaucracy at the  Chamber (and herself) after all these years how will we ever fill her void? Watch, she'll re erupt as lead pr person for this corner development...

[Conan71]

OH MY! With Suzanne Stewie gone after inflating her bureaucracy at the  Chamber (and herself) after all these years how will we ever fill her void? Watch, she'll re erupt as lead pr person for this corner development...

He may not discriminate by the hue, but he sure does by the pound.

You need to eat more, here's a dog.  Mustard is over there.

[Oil Capital]

Back to the topic...

I am excited that something will go in the block to the east of the new BOKcenter.

I am guessing that the TDA will approve the negotiated terms with the builder at their meeting this Thursday.

so... anything?