Missing guns?

[RecycleMichael]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090506_11_A13_Lxscrt406050&allcom=1

Audit is critical of TPD gun security

The investigation finds that 44 firearms have vanished, including 19 stolen by a former officer.

By MATT BARNARD World Staff Writer
Published: 5/6/2009

Lax security policies at the Tulsa Police Department led to the disappearance of 44 guns and an unknown amount of ammunition, a recent audit concluded. The inquiry stemmed from the theft of 19 firearms and ammunition in 2007, Police Chief Ron Palmer told city councilors Tuesday. Former range instructor Buddy Visser was sent to federal prison for stealing the weapons and selling them online during an 11-month period.
"No one ever counted on the police stealing from the police," Palmer said. "But at the same time, we could have done a lot better job along the way."

The 19 stolen guns were eventually recovered. Twenty-five others, including two AR-15 assault rifles and several snub-nosed revolvers, are unaccounted for, Palmer said. Although it's continuing to search for those weapons, the department has invested in a computer system to track ammunition by bar codes. Security is also tighter at the range, Palmer said. The audit, which cataloged roughly 5,300 firearms that passed through the department in the last 30 years, was the first large-scale examination of the department's arsenal, Palmer said. "A whole host of things happened during that period of time and, as we admit in our response to the range audit, we didn't do a very good job in some of that inventory control," he said.

Among the missing weapons are nine Remington 12-gauge shotguns and two Smith & Wesson .357-caliber Magnum revolvers. All told, the guns are worth $11,864, records show. Palmer said the audit uncovered several ways to improve security. The new computer program will help track the department's inventory, but technical problems have delayed the project. Officials are working with the city's information technology staff to bring the system online, Palmer said.

Visser, a 17-year department veteran, sold the stolen guns and ammunition on his Web site, authorities said. None of the buyers knew that the weapons were stolen, police said. Visser resigned from the police force before he pleaded guilty to the charges in March 2008. He is in a low-security prison in Texas, records show.

I hope that the police department can stop this theft in the future. It is kind of scary that a policeman is stealing and selling guns on the internet.

[custosnox]

Among the missing weapons are nine Remington 12-gauge shotguns and two Smith & Wesson .357-caliber Magnum revolvers.

How long has it been since TPD has used revolvers?  Since the audit went back 30 years, I wonder when some of this stuff went missing.

[TUalum0982]

44 guns lost out of 5300? I believe that comes to .008%.  If you take into account the ones that buddy visser stole it is even less then that.  Now don't get me wrong, if any gone is misplaced or lost it is too many, but no one is perfect so why should we expect our police to be?  If you were given the tedious task of inventorying all the evidence, could you do it perfectly? I think not. 

[custosnox]

44 guns lost out of 5300? I believe that comes to .008%.  If you take into account the ones that buddy visser stole it is even less then that.  Now don't get me wrong, if any gone is misplaced or lost it is too many, but no one is perfect so why should we expect our police to be?  If you were given the tedious task of inventorying all the evidence, could you do it perfectly? I think not. 

In general I would agree with you, inventory is a hard thing to keep track of.  But this is one thing that I would expect them to go the extra 10 miles on to make sure it's all there.

[waterboy]

Still, that's only 25 guns still missing in 30 years. Glad to hear they're addressing it though.

[custosnox]

I'm suddenly reminded of an old joke where cops make a major Marajuana (sp?) bust, with however many pounds of MJ being confiscated.  With each step of processing it, there is less to turn over to the next personel.  The day of court comes, the drug supplier is being arraigned, and charged with "the possession of this single joint with intent to distribute"

[cannon_fodder]

I definitely see both sides of the coin.   On the one side it is outrages that the police "lost" firearms.  On the other, in 30 years they "only" lost 25 weapons.   If they were stolen and they realized they were stolen, then they did a good job I suppose.  If weapons were missing and they didn't know it, it is a bit more alarming.  I guess I would have to know more about the policy and procedures at TPD and other departments as well as loss rates in the industry to make a better assessment.

But here is a question, with 900 officers:  Why keep such an inventory?  5300 firearms?  If they all carried duel side arms wild west style, had a shotgun in the car, and a rifle in the trunk you'd STILL have an extra 1,000 weapons.  Or did I misread something?

[TUalum0982]

I definitely see both sides of the coin.   On the one side it is outrages that the police "lost" firearms.  On the other, in 30 years they "only" lost 25 weapons.   If they were stolen and they realized they were stolen, then they did a good job I suppose.  If weapons were missing and they didn't know it, it is a bit more alarming.  I guess I would have to know more about the policy and procedures at TPD and other departments as well as loss rates in the industry to make a better assessment.

But here is a question, with 900 officers:  Why keep such an inventory?  5300 firearms?  If they all carried duel side arms wild west style, had a shotgun in the car, and a rifle in the trunk you'd STILL have an extra 1,000 weapons.  Or did I misread something?

most are kept as evidence and others are ones they have seized from drug raids, warrant searches, etc etc.  Most officers do carry a shotgun or high powered rifle in their cars.  And to my knowledge they have destroyed some guns in the past.  I don't think they sell them at the auctions that the city occasionally holds, but I could be wrong?  Anyone care to clarify that?

[RecycleMichael]

I think that there have been more than 900 officers over the thirty years of the audit. I can see how inventory controls would be difficult with so many different people and so many years.

I am a little scared that they are missing assault rifles, however.

[TUalum0982]

I agree with you RM but there are several reasons why they could come up "missing" when they truly arent.  The item in question could have been released back to its owner (if say it was stolen from its rightful owner and is no longer needed as evidence) but was not keyed out of inventory.  Not making excuses, but I hope everyone doesn't judge a book by its cover.  It is plausible there could be some reason or explination behind it

[custosnox]

A lot of it could be clerical errors.  Just because the computer says it's there doesn't mean it ever actually was.  But it's the unkown that makes you worry. 

As far as the overwelming number of arms per officer ratio, I think that when an officer retires they have the option of buying their firearm as well (not completely sure though).  And, over thirty years, I'm sure they have had to replace a number of firearms due to updating to semi-automatics, and wear and tear on old ones.  Unless I read the article wrong, they don't currently have an inventory of 5,300 firearms, that is just how many their inventory has tracked over the past three decades.

[ILUVTulsa]

Keep a lookout for 2 ARs, 9 12-guage, and 2 S/W 357!

[waterboy]

Too difficult. That's the average Tulsan.