10 Commandments to go on State Capitol

[Hoss]

Will our lawmakers NEVER learn.  We voted on this.  What's going to make the result change?  Asking again.  It's like a five year old continually asking their parents if they can play outside once they've been told.

http://kfor.com/2017/01/26/lawmaker-renews-ten-commandments-fight/

[Conan71]

Will our lawmakers NEVER learn.  We voted on this.  What's going to make the result change?  Asking again.  It's like a five year old continually asking their parents if they can play outside once they've been told.

http://kfor.com/2017/01/26/lawmaker-renews-ten-commandments-fight/

Come on people!  How many face palms can we get here?

[swake]

Newly elected Sen. Micheal Bergstrom (R-Adair) wants voters to have another chance to bring the Ten Commandments monument back to capitol grounds.

Maybe he's been smoking some of that stuff from Adair...

[Red Arrow]

Come on people!  How many face palms can we get here?

There's (evidently) always room for one more.

[Ed W]

Will our lawmakers NEVER learn.  We voted on this.  What's going to make the result change?  Asking again.  It's like a five year old continually asking their parents if they can play outside once they've been told.

http://kfor.com/2017/01/26/lawmaker-renews-ten-commandments-fight/

Remember, this has nothing to do with the legality of establishing a monument and everything to do with appealing to the conservative base, guaranteeing they'll vote for whatever numbnutz tosses that red meat. Sure, it's a huge waste of taxpayer money, but it serves their re-election plans.

[cannon_fodder]

That article is awesome.

The bill specifically requires the monument to be proportionate to other monuments and have only the text of the Ten Commandments.

The specificity is a way to simplify the issue for voters, who shot down State Question 792 in November.

That was a broader proposal to allow public money and property to be used for any religious purpose.

Where as this is a more narrow proposal to only allow public money and property to be used for one religious purpose. Which the Oklahoma Supreme Court says was inappropriate under the Oklahoma Constitution, so we had a vote to change the Constitution which failed.  What that means is that under our Constitution one cannot put a religious monument on State property.

There were a lot of people putting out things like 'You're going to have a spaghetti monster on the state capitol, a satanic monument, all kinds of things like that, because how can you restrict that?' And, I think that was a legitimate concern. I met a lot of people who told me they were concerned about that question. But, they liked the idea of the Ten Commandments being displayed.

This ignores the first problem - that the proposal has explicitly been rules on, and jumps straight on analysis of a Federal Challenge:  the State of Oklahoma cannot support one religion over others. So yea, a fear that allowing one religious monument will open the door to many others is a very justified fear.  The US Supreme Court has been fairly straight forward on the issue over many cases.

But, he insists the statue - which he said conveys values held by all faiths - is important to his constituents.

Buddhist, Taoists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, CFSM, Scientologists, and a bunch of others disagree.  Particularly that bit about "no Gods but me" and not bowing to "idols." Those bits are kind of offensive to everyone not in an Abrahamic religion.

Even Jews and Christians would disagree depending on which version of the Ten Commandments you put up.

"This is just another thing that we can deal with as lawmakers, to do what it is that the people of Oklahoma want," he said. "This idea that just because some people might be offended by that that we can't do it I think is taking political correctness to an extreme, and we just need to avoid that."

We voted on this exact issue in November, and it failed. I know you think it was confusing because it allowed religious freedom for everyone, not just your group, but that's how it works.  And if you think Separation of Church and State is "political correctness to an extreme,"  you desperately need to review US history and Constitutional law. The issue isn't that other faiths are offended, it is that the State of Oklahoma is endorsing one faith group over all others.

[BKDotCom]

Particularly that bit about "no Gods but me" and not bowing to "idols."

Read that as 'not bowing to "idiots"'

That's a command I could get behind.

[patric]

https://www.facebook.com/Crunkster430/videos/10213320261704638/
The Whirled reported he's a product of the Victory Bible College in Tulsa.

No more crazy than the extremists who believe their religion exempts them from the law.

[Tulsa Zephyr]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/usworld/man-who-drove-into-oklahoma-s-ten-commandments-monument-arrested/article_bf74e460-a293-534f-bab0-0abb4432feaa.html

Apparently this is the same guy who drove over the Ten Commandments in our state capitol.  Good job!

[Hoss]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/usworld/man-who-drove-into-oklahoma-s-ten-commandments-monument-arrested/article_bf74e460-a293-534f-bab0-0abb4432feaa.html

Apparently this is the same guy who drove over the Ten Commandments in our state capitol.  Good job!

Yeah, I was getting ready to post that as well....so many people are complaining that he's either an atheist or Satanist.  He's evidently a Christian...go figure.

[sgrizzle]

In a 2015 email to the Tulsa World, Reed apologized for wrecking Oklahoma's monument and said he suffered from mental health issues.

This monument thing also causes me mental health issues

"resorting to property destruction is never the answer to a policy disagreement."

[Townsend]

Bill to allow Ten Commandments monuments passes state Senate
Ten Commandments would be allowed on public land alongside historical docs

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/bill-to-allow-commandments-monuments-passes-state-senate/article_063eaace-161d-5214-9122-5964456371d7.html

OKLAHOMA CITY — A bill that would allow for the display of the Ten Commandments along with historical documents on public property passed the state Senate on Thursday.

House Bill 2177 by Rep. John Bennett, R-Sallisaw, and Sen. Joseph Silk, R-Broken Bow, passed by a 39-3 vote and heads to the House for consideration.

"Every county, municipality, city, town, school or any other political subdivision is authorized to display, in its public buildings and on its grounds, replicas of historical documents including, but not limited to, the Ten Commandments, Magna Carta, Mayflower Compact, Declaration of Independence, United States Constitution, Bill of Rights, Oklahoma Constitution and other historically significant documents in the form of statues, monuments, memorials, tablets or any other display that respects the dignity and solemnity of such documents," according to the measure.

An amendment to penalize lawmakers who author unconstitutional bills failed to secure approval.

The bill comes after the Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled in 2015 that a privately funded Ten Commandments monument on the Capitol grounds was religious and had to be removed.

It also comes after voters in 2016 rejected State Question 790, which would have allowed the Ten Commandments monument to be displayed at the Capitol.

The question, put on the ballot by state lawmakers, would have removed the portion of the Oklahoma Constitution that the Supreme Court used to order removal of the Ten Commandments monument from the Capitol grounds.

Sen. Micheal Bergstrom, R-Adair, said the measure would not force cities, counties or other entities to display the monuments, but would allow for it.

He said the Ten Commandments would have to be displayed "with other historical documents."

Senate Minority Leader John Sparks, D-Norman, attempted to amend the bill.

Sparks' amendment said that if the attorney general had to defend a lawsuit over legislation and lost, the money for the legal costs would be taken from road funds in the district of the authors of the unconstitutional measure and be given to the attorney general.

Sparks said that in his 12 years in office, at least 25 measures attempting to make a point have been found unconstitutional.

He said some lawmakers want to make political points, particularly if someone else pays for it.

Sparks told Bergstrom that he could see few other cases where the likelihood of it being found unconstitutional were as close to 100 percent as the bill in question.

"If it is important enough for certain members to push a certain issue, those members should be willing to bear the cost," Sparks said.

Bergstrom took issue with the amendment, saying it appeared to be a threat against authors who sponsor controversial measures.

Sparks said the constitutionality of the measure had nothing to do with controversy. If members are held responsible, he said, they might use a little more discretion.

"That is all — just a little personal responsibility," Sparks said.

His amendment failed by a vote of 7 to 33.

Sen. Casey Murdock, R-Felt, presented the bill. He said he believed the measure would be found constitutional because it requires that the Ten Commandments be displayed with other historical documents.

My opinion is the asshats need to learn to prioritize. 

[patric]

Bill to allow Ten Commandments monuments passes state Senate
Ten Commandments would be allowed on public land alongside historical docs

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/bill-to-allow-commandments-monuments-passes-state-senate/article_063eaace-161d-5214-9122-5964456371d7.html

My opinion is the asshats need to learn to prioritize. 

"An amendment to penalize lawmakers who author unconstitutional bills failed to secure approval."

So with absolute certainty the bill is illegal and will tie up taxpayer money in fruitless litigation, they still fan the flames to make political points with extremist donors and lobbyists.  And we ask why we dont have money for teachers and education.

[BKDotCom]

requires that the Ten Commandments be displayed with other historical documents

"other historical documents" :

• Tobin's Spirit Guide
• Quran
• Book of Mormon
• all of these
• US constitution, 1st amendment
• Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11
• etc

[Hoss]

Bill to allow Ten Commandments monuments passes state Senate
Ten Commandments would be allowed on public land alongside historical docs

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/bill-to-allow-commandments-monuments-passes-state-senate/article_063eaace-161d-5214-9122-5964456371d7.html

My opinion is the asshats need to learn to prioritize. 

What makes them think the outcome will be different from the last time?  No wonder people hate politicians.