Official rant about civic center plaza (aka "House of Fail") thread

[Gold]

Let's start with the plaza itself.  Fix the damn fountain or get rid of it.  Yesterday.  It looks like hell.

Try to improve the overall look of the plaza.  Right now, on a sunny day, it looks like a place you want to get the heck out of as fast as possible.  Part of that is the numerous panhandlers or ne'er-do-wells standing around.  The whole thing looks like 28 Days Later.  You rarely see anyone with a legitimate purpose lounging around that area.  And of course we put our wonderful new arena next to it.

Now the sub-topic that I really care about: the courthouse/county building.  It sucks.  Bad.

I understand the need for security.  But the folks they have running it aren't good at their jobs.  I get frisked while wearing a suit and showing up quite often for work.  There should be some sort of minimum athletic ability requirement.  If someone really wanted to cause problems there, these folks couldn't stop him.

The elevators.  Terrible.  They don't meet the demand.  Of course, you installed an escalator that goes to the second and third floors (where quite a bit of business takes place).  But you didn't meet any sort of minimal legal requirements to build that.  You just over-budgeted funds for years and took the leftovers to build the escalator.  Which is great, since it appears the majority of visitors to the courthouse have absolutely no idea it's there.  At least bring back the sign for the escalator; maybe install neon lights that say "HEY, THERE'S AN ESCALATOR FOLKS, IT'S MUCH QUICKER FOR EVERYONE IF YOU USE IT."

Courthouse library.  Fail.  Pages missing from books.  Way too much money given to it (from filing fees).  Grumpy staff that questions you if you file by fax.  Nice X-men poster.

The actual filing desk staff.  Some nice folks, but too many who don't want to work.  Sometimes the only time something can be filed is 4:30 on Friday before a three day weekend.  I'm sorry about that, don't complain.  Be glad you have a job and I'm locked into paying your retirement.

Land records.  Major failure.  You guys suck on so many different levels.  Your fees for printouts are out of control.  When I go in looking for help, you might actually pay attention, but more likely, you're on lunch for the third time today.  There is absolutely no reason I should have to pay to do land record research online.  So many other places do it for free.   But of course, a certain county commissioner feared that terrorists might track him down using it and said so publicly.

Court records.  What do you do all day?  Not enough.

Now onto the municipal courthouse.  Nothing but fail.  The police records are the slowest thing I have ever seen.  This building was too creepy to be used on flashbacks on Lost.

Old (but not oldest) City Hall.  You were never an attractive building.  Even by Eastern Bloc standards.  You will never become a hotel.  Or anything.  Just please go away or be hit by a tornado when no one is around to be hurt.

The library.  You guys try.  It's not a bad library.  It's also not a place that makes our city look very good, at least in terms of the homeless folks hanging out there.  I understand there's not much you can do, and, no doubt, you made strides by cracking down on internet use.  But it is what it is and it ain't that good.

Things are looking up in the rest of downtown.  Something neat is happening.  But this entire section is a disaster.

[TURobY]

It sucks, because I can think of some really cool ideas for the area, provided I had the entire area to work with. Unfortunately, that will never likely be the case.

[Conan71]

Yep, big truck-load of fail.

[FOTD]

Gold....it's called churning....

every 10 - 20 years a different area of downtown gets "revived". The OLD city hall plaza will be there for many moons. Ferris Wheel?

[cannon_fodder]

I'll start with the notion that I like the idea of a civic plaza.  Very Romanesque in the idea of it.  All government buildings and functions together in one space. It is convenient, practical, and could/should save space and money.  But we kinda sorta destroyed that anyway by moving half the city functions across town . . .

Let's start with the plaza itself.  Fix the damn fountain or get rid of it.  Yesterday.  It looks like hell.

Try to improve the overall look of the plaza.  Right now, on a sunny day, it looks like a place you want to get the heck out of as fast as possible.  Part of that is the numerous panhandlers or ne'er-do-wells standing around.  The whole thing looks like 28 Days Later.  You rarely see anyone with a legitimate purpose lounging around that area.  And of course we put our wonderful new arena next to it.

+1. Crumbling surfaces.  Fountains that look like death and don't work.  Portions of the parking ramp may fail at any moment.  The buildings themselves look like a structure near Chernobyl, haven't been maintained in years.  Weeds growing in cracks.  Gardening pots that aren't gardened.

Really, you have nearly an infinite supply of slave labor (community service), us it wisely.

Now the sub-topic that I really care about: the courthouse/county building.  It sucks.  Bad.

I understand the need for security.  But the folks they have running it aren't good at their jobs.  I get frisked while wearing a suit and showing up quite often for work.  There should be some sort of minimum athletic ability requirement.  If someone really wanted to cause problems there, these folks couldn't stop him.

True.  I would be willing to guess none of the Sheriffs that work in the Courthouse could pass the TPD or TFD physical fitness program.  I don't want to be too mean because they are always helpful to people when asked a question, but I have my doubts that they could handle a real security situation.

The elevators.  Terrible.  They don't meet the demand.  Of course, you installed an escalator that goes to the second and third floors (where quite a bit of business takes place).  But you didn't meet any sort of minimal legal requirements to build that.  You just over-budgeted funds for years and took the leftovers to build the escalator.  Which is great, since it appears the majority of visitors to the courthouse have absolutely no idea it's there.  At least bring back the sign for the escalator; maybe install neon lights that say "HEY, THERE'S AN ESCALATOR FOLKS, IT'S MUCH QUICKER FOR EVERYONE IF YOU USE IT."

They need 4 elevators for sure - which probably won't happen. Maybe upgrade the speed (not too slow now, but just not getting the job done).   #3 has been down a lot lately, which helps a ton.  And why no escalator sign?  I want to kidney punch people as they exit on the second or 3rd floors.

Courthouse library.  Fail.  Pages missing from books.  Way too much money given to it (from filing fees).  Grumpy staff that questions you if you file by fax.  Nice X-men poster.

You use the courthouse library for something other than copies and random brief computer access?  You trust file by fax?  Wow.  I was just wondering the other day what the staff of 4 does all day. And yes, I have noted the X-men poster.

On the plus side, it is the only place in the courthouse (besides chambers) that is remotely civil or quiet.

The actual filing desk staff.  Some nice folks, but too many who don't want to work.  Sometimes the only time something can be filed is 4:30 on Friday before a three day weekend.  I'm sorry about that, don't complain.  Be glad you have a job and I'm locked into paying your retirement.

I kiss the clerks butts.  Most of them are very friendly and nice.  Occasionally you get yelled at if you file on Monday at the crim desk or Tuesdays or Fridays at the civil desk.  Generally I have found them to return my friendliness.  Certain clerks clearly don't want to be there.

Land records.  Major failure.  You guys suck on so many different levels.  Your fees for printouts are out of control.  When I go in looking for help, you might actually pay attention, but more likely, you're on lunch for the third time today.  There is absolutely no reason I should have to pay to do land record research online.  So many other places do it for free.   But of course, a certain county commissioner feared that terrorists might track him down using it and said so publicly.

Agreed on the fees.  And on forbidding me the ability to print.  You can imprint "COPY" over the document if you want, but let me print dang it.   The online system is nice though.

Related note:  why do I have to pay for a separate account to access tax records?  

Court records.  What do you do all day?  Not enough.

They do sweet decorations for major holidays.  Never had a real problem getting records in the time prescribed (or running out North to get them my damn self if I need them faster).

Now onto the municipal courthouse . . . pancakes.  Nothing but fail.  The police records are the slowest thing I have ever seen.  This building was too creepy to be used on flashbacks on Lost.

Agreed.  Fail.  The building makes no sense at all.  It is cramped and dark on the inside.  The police records "print" amazingly slow.  1 page a minute or something.  They are public record, why not just post them online and hold back ones that should be?

Which brings me to a side note:

OKC posts most court documents online.  Why not Tulsa?

Old (but not oldest) City Hall.  You were never an attractive building.  Even by Eastern Bloc standards.  You will never become a hotel.  Or anything.  Just please go away or be hit by a tornado when no one is around to be hurt.

Not even by Eastern Bloc standards.  Classic.

The library.  You guys try.  It's not a bad library.  It's also not a place that makes our city look very good, at least in terms of the homeless folks hanging out there.  I understand there's not much you can do, and, no doubt, you made strides by cracking down on internet use.  But it is what it is and it ain't that good.

I like the downtown library.  They can not control who patronizes it.   Not the best in the world, but it serves its purpose.

Things are looking up in the rest of downtown.  Something neat is happening.  But this entire section is a disaster.

Generally, true.  I took pictures of the plaza view from a suite at the Mayo.  Will post someday.

[TheTed]

The whole plaza is still terrible, but not quite as terrible as it was a year ago. I've seen prisoners out there spiffing the place up quite a bit recently. They've repainted those weird bench/shelter things (the bum campgrounds). They redid the library steps and added that ugly turkey statue.

They've even gotten a hot dog man out there every day.

(rant warning)
Knowing that nothing major's gonna change anytime soon, my biggest complaint is all the cars parked all over the place on the sidewalk and the plaza itself. It's a pedestrian area, not a parking lot. I understand a contractor may need to park there, but I know every single employee working on the library steps doesn't need to park there. The UPS man, the TV news stations, the uniform delivery truck all need to find new places to park. Park in the right-hand lane on Denver Avenue. It wouldn't impede traffic that much.

But this is Tulsa, where pedestrians don't matter. If you don't have a car, you're a loser.

If I set up a lawnchair in the right-hand lane on Denver Avenue, I'd be arrested within minutes. But cars can park on pedestrian areas all day every day. Why is that? Why are pedestrian thoroughfares infinitely less important than automobile thoroughfares?

[Conan71]

I'll start with the notion that I like the idea of a civic plaza.  Very Romanesque in the idea of it.  All government buildings and functions together in one space. It is convenient, practical, and could/should save space and money.  But we kinda sorta destroyed that anyway by moving half the city functions across town . . .

+1. Crumbling surfaces.  Fountains that look like death and don't work.  Portions of the parking ramp may fail at any moment.  The buildings themselves look like a structure near Chernobyl, haven't been maintained in years.  Weeds growing in cracks.  Gardening pots that aren't gardened.

Really, you have nearly an infinite supply of slave labor (community service), us it wisely.

True.  I would be willing to guess none of the Sheriffs that work in the Courthouse could pass the TPD or TFD physical fitness program.  I don't want to be too mean because they are always helpful to people when asked a question, but I have my doubts that they could handle a real security situation.

They need 4 elevators for sure - which probably won't happen. Maybe upgrade the speed (not too slow now, but just not getting the job done).   #3 has been down a lot lately, which helps a ton.  And why no escalator sign?  I want to kidney punch people as they exit on the second or 3rd floors.

You use the courthouse library for something other than copies and random brief computer access?  You trust file by fax?  Wow.  I was just wondering the other day what the staff of 4 does all day. And yes, I have noted the X-men poster.

On the plus side, it is the only place in the courthouse (besides chambers) that is remotely civil or quiet.

I kiss the clerks butts.  Most of them are very friendly and nice.  Occasionally you get yelled at if you file on Monday at the crim desk or Tuesdays or Fridays at the civil desk.  Generally I have found them to return my friendliness.  Certain clerks clearly don't want to be there.

Agreed on the fees.  And on forbidding me the ability to print.  You can imprint "COPY" over the document if you want, but let me print dang it.   The online system is nice though.

Related note:  why do I have to pay for a separate account to access tax records?  

They do sweet decorations for major holidays.  Never had a real problem getting records in the time prescribed (or running out North to get them my damn self if I need them faster).

Agreed.  Fail.  The building makes no sense at all.  It is cramped and dark on the inside.  The police records "print" amazingly slow.  1 page a minute or something.  They are public record, why not just post them online and hold back ones that should be?

Which brings me to a side note:

OKC posts most court documents online.  Why not Tulsa?

Not even by Eastern Bloc standards.  Classic.

I like the downtown library.  They can not control who patronizes it.   Not the best in the world, but it serves its purpose.

Generally, true.  I took pictures of the plaza view from a suite at the Mayo.  Will post someday.

Don't you have a plane to catch?

[Gold]

The whole plaza is still terrible, but not quite as terrible as it was a year ago. I've seen prisoners out there spiffing the place up quite a bit recently. They've repainted those weird bench/shelter things (the bum campgrounds). They redid the library steps and added that ugly turkey statue.

They've even gotten a hot dog man out there every day.

(rant warning)
Knowing that nothing major's gonna change anytime soon, my biggest complaint is all the cars parked all over the place on the sidewalk and the plaza itself. It's a pedestrian area, not a parking lot. I understand a contractor may need to park there, but I know every single employee working on the library steps doesn't need to park there. The UPS man, the TV news stations, the uniform delivery truck all need to find new places to park. Park in the right-hand lane on Denver Avenue. It wouldn't impede traffic that much.

But this is Tulsa, where pedestrians don't matter. If you don't have a car, you're a loser.

If I set up a lawnchair in the right-hand lane on Denver Avenue, I'd be arrested within minutes. But cars can park on pedestrian areas all day every day. Why is that? Why are pedestrian thoroughfares infinitely less important than automobile thoroughfares?

We could start an additional rant thread on the parking/traffic/pedestrian issued downtown.  No one wins as things stand. 

I really don't like all the trucks and what have you parking along Boston or other major streets since they went two way.  Often times they'll park across part of the passing lane and really slow down traffic.  Now, there's a time and place for loading stuff and I understand the need.  But there has to be a better way than this system. 

And OSU Tulsa security guy: you don't get to park in the right lane anymore.  You aren't a truck.  You're just out of shape and need to walk more, so find a meter like the rest of us and do the bank deposits that way.

As a pedestrian, I see a lot of abuses my motor vehicles.  People running lights or not coming to a complete stop or that sort of thing.  It would seem there needs to be more enforcement of current laws downtown.  Ideally, people would just be more curteous to each other.  Bicycles should stay off overpasses, particularly the one on Cincinatti, during rush hour; cars should be polite to pedestrians and not make asinine decisions about parking; pedestrians should get off their phones and try to walk in the crosswalks (and not dart out from behind cars).