Home Bible Study Banned....

[Breadburner]

Pastor David Jones and his wife Mary have been told that they cannot invite friends to their San Diego, Calif. home for a bible study — unless they are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to San Diego County.
"On Good Friday we had an employee from San Diego County come to our house, and inform us that the bible study that we were having was a religious assembly, and in violation of the code in the county." David Jones told FOX News.
"We told them this is not really a religious assembly — this is just a bible study with friends. We have a meal, we pray, that was all," Jones said.
A few days later, the couple received a written warning that cited "unlawful use of land," ordering them to either "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit," the couple's attorney Dean Broyles told San Diego news station 10News.
But the major use permit could cost the Jones' thousands of dollars just to have a few friends over.
For David and Mary Jones, it's about more than a question of money.
"The government may not prohibit the free exercise of religion," Broyles told FOX News. "I believe that our Founding Fathers would roll over in their grave if they saw that here in the year 2009, a pastor and his wife are being told that they cannot hold a simple bible study in their own home."
"The implications are great because it's not only us that's involved," Mary Jones said. "There are thousands and thousands of bible studies that are held all across the country. What we're interested in is setting a precedent here — before it goes any further — and that we have it settled for the future."
The couple is planning to dispute the county's order this week.
If San Diego County refuses to allow the pastor and his wife to continue gathering without acquiring a permit, they will consider a lawsuit in federal court.
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Only in Kommiefornia....

[waterboy]

I wonder if the pastor has a regular church for his services. If not this may in fact be his church operating out of his home. Likely one of the neighbors complained to the county and they had to react if they deduced it was just a de facto church. Can't blame them for enforcing zoning laws can you?

If I have a few friends over to drink margaritas and eat mexican food, I'm not a restaurant. But If it is a regular event with paying customers and I use up the street parking, well, I'm an unregulated restaurant and the neighbors will complain. Perhaps if we just crack a bible and read a bit before we hit the burritos it might be different.

[custosnox]

I wonder if the pastor has a regular church for his services. If not this may in fact be his church operating out of his home. Likely one of the neighbors complained to the county and they had to react if they deduced it was just a de facto church. Can't blame them for enforcing zoning laws can you?

If I have a few friends over to drink margaritas and eat mexican food, I'm not a restaurant. But If it is a regular event with paying customers and I use up the street parking, well, I'm an unregulated restaurant and the neighbors will complain. Perhaps if we just crack a bible and read a bit before we hit the burritos it might be different.

Guess we better stop having the tuperware parties while we're at it.  Don't want to get hit with a zoning ordinance for operating an unauthorized retail shop.

[PepePeru]

First, the article never mentioned how many a 'few friends' is.
Someone in the 'hood probably alerted the County.

I wouldn't want a minister living next door inviting 50 people over every week.

I've read several articles about swingers that have their 50 person orgy parties shut down for similar reasons.

This story is just intentionally vague to whip the FN readers into a frenzy and they can keep claiming that their faith is under attack.

[tulsa_fan]

Can you post a link to that story?

[custosnox]

First, the article never mentioned how many a 'few friends' is.
Someone in the 'hood probably alerted the County.

I wouldn't want a minister living next door inviting 50 people over every week.

I've read several articles about swingers that have their 50 person orgy parties shut down for similar reasons.

This story is just intentionally vague to whip the FN readers into a frenzy and they can keep claiming that their faith is under attack.

This is true, it does come down to how many are involved, and how often. 

[TURobY]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522637,00.html?sPage=fnc/us/crime

Fox News and its affiliates are the only ones I can find running the story. And Christian blogs/newsletters.

[PepePeru]

http://www.10news.com/news/19562217/detail.html

this goes into more detail.

an avg. of 15 people. 

even then, that could be anywhere from 7-15 cars.

all it takes is one time for a neighbor to have a hard time backing out of their driveway to make a phone call to the City/County.

[custosnox]

http://www.10news.com/news/19562217/detail.html

this goes into more detail.

an avg. of 15 people. 

even then, that could be anywhere from 7-15 cars.

all it takes is one time for a neighbor to have a hard time backing out of their driveway to make a phone call to the City/County.

15 people? I have that at my place almost every weekend with the family.  The asian family across the street has that almost every day.  15 is not that many, and far from needing zoning for it.  Also look at the questions they asked. 

'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?'
'Do you say amen?'
'Do you pray?'
'Do you say praise the Lord?'

By these guidlines, everytime my family gathers for whatever (very regular occurance), then we are having a religous meeting. 

[Gaspar]

California is an extremely important political experiment.

I think more of the country would embrace liberal policy without California's example.  They have become a sitcom.

They're just going to legislate the crap out of themselves, and we get to watch.

[waterboy]

Oklahoma is an extremely important political experiment.

I think more of the country would embrace ultra conservative policy without Oklahoma's example. We are a failed sitcom.

We're just going to legislate the crap out of ourselves, and the whole country gets to watch.

And custo, why is a Tupperware business any different than me running any other retail business out of my home? Call it a "party" or call it retail, zoning laws apply. If I do it with abusive disregard for zoning and parking, I will most certainly hear from the city, county or pissed off neighbors.

[FOTD]

Hmmm....ex cot attorney in SD....Franklins Tower from TNF?

LOVE THIS!

[custosnox]

Oklahoma is an extremely important political experiment.

I think more of the country would embrace ultra conservative policy without Oklahoma's example. We are a failed sitcom.

We're just going to legislate the crap out of ourselves, and the whole country gets to watch.

And custo, why is a Tupperware business any different than me running any other retail business out of my home? Call it a "party" or call it retail, zoning laws apply. If I do it with abusive disregard for zoning and parking, I will most certainly hear from the city, county or pissed off neighbors.

My point was, if something like this is going to be restricted because of zoning, then it should fall on everything that is anything remotely like it, such as tuperware parties (which have been around for decades without a single complaint that I'm aware of)

[Wilbur]

Two points:

1.  So, can we assume these regular get 'meetings' would also include:  poker night, book club, bridge, Bunco, Red Wings watching parties (I'm confident these are going on all over the place these days), .....

2.  The number of cars parked in the street should be a non-issue for anyone.  The streets are taxpayer funded, which means I can park everyone of my cars in front of my neighbors house if I want, and he can do the same in front of my house. 

[waterboy]

Two points:

1.  So, can we assume these regular get 'meetings' would also include:  poker night, book club, bridge, Bunco, Red Wings watching parties (I'm confident these are going on all over the place these days), .....

2.  The number of cars parked in the street should be a non-issue for anyone.  The streets are taxpayer funded, which means I can park everyone of my cars in front of my neighbors house if I want, and he can do the same in front of my house. 

I'm glad you're not one of my neighbors! Seriously, if you follow those arguments, what good is zoning? If your poker night, book club, bridge, bunco and sports parties are part of a tax exempt church organization that is using your taxpayer funded streets as its own parking lot, then yeah, that ain't right. He's using his neighbors taxes to fund his church operations.

There are 11 addresses on my block. Being generous, two cars could park in front of them (22 total spots).  Currently, 7 of us park on the street (teenagers, second cars etc). That leaves 14 spots from full capacity. We share those spots with visiting company, a nearby grade school and real (non profit) get togethers you described. Cramming in 15 cars every Wednesday and Sunday for someone's church would not be suffered lightly.

The guy needs to get donations and build a church or meet in a nearby school or something.