Domestic Right Wing Terrorists!

[Conan71]

You're so predictable....and boring.

Where's your outrage?  You'd be all over this if it had happened at an abortion mill.

[heironymouspasparagus]

If you don't have to give up your car because others drive drunk with theirs....

Then why should you have to give up you gun because others commit crimes with theirs?


   -- The Instigator.

[Red Arrow]

If you don't have to give up your car because others drive drunk with theirs....
Then why should you have to give up your gun because others commit crimes with theirs?
   -- The Instigator.

All drunk drivers are drunk (or otherwise intoxicated).  Are all those who commit crimes with guns also drunk?

(Just looking for an answer to the question. I don't generally believe that the actions of a few should require the rest to give up their guns.)

[heironymouspasparagus]

All drunk drivers are drunk (or otherwise intoxicated).  Are all those who commit crimes with guns also drunk?

(Just looking for an answer to the question. I don't generally believe that the actions of a few should require the rest to give up their guns.)

If someone does something irresponsible such as the intentional, illegal criminal act of driving drunk - premeditated attempted murder; then obviously law abiding, responsible people who also happen to drive, should also have to be subject to the same penalty.... 

Makes sense, don't it??

[Red Arrow]

If someone does something irresponsible such as the intentional, illegal criminal act of driving drunk - premeditated attempted murder;

It is not illegal to drive with low, predefined, levels of blood alcohol.  Too many drivers have no capability of determining when they have crossed that line.  Once they have crossed that line, they have impaired judgement.   That impaired judgement allows them to think they can drive without harming either themselves or anyone else.  I don't know of anyone who went drinking with the intention of getting behind the wheel while impaired that said "I'm gonna go kill someone with my car tonight."  People who are injured, killed, or even just inconvenienced by a wreck are still dead or damaged but I will not call it premeditated attempted murder due to the driver's impaired state, even though it was self inflicted.

Edit:  Is there such a thing as a legal criminal act?

[Red Arrow]

Makes sense, don't it??

I think a better comparison might be to road rage rather than drunk driving.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It is not illegal to drive with low, predefined, levels of blood alcohol.  Too many drivers have no capability of determining when they have crossed that line.  Once they have crossed that line, they have impaired judgement.   That impaired judgement allows them to think they can drive without harming either themselves or anyone else.  I don't know of anyone who went drinking with the intention of getting behind the wheel while impaired that said "I'm gonna go kill someone with my car tonight."  People who are injured, killed, or even just inconvenienced by a wreck are still dead or damaged but I will not call it premeditated attempted murder due to the driver's impaired state, even though it was self inflicted.

Edit:  Is there such a thing as a legal criminal act?

Here's where I think you are just way too liberal....channeling Nancy Pelosi tonight???  You are in "good company" - pretty much the entire country feels very liberal about it.


Given the history, the information that is imparted to everyone, everywhere, from elementary school, middle and high school, tv, billboards, radio, and just about any advertising media imaginable - it is premeditated, thought out,  planned and executed intentionally.  Goes to personal responsibility as strongly as any topic in the public forum - probably more than any other.

And what may well be even worse is the cavalier attitude we take as a society about drunk drivers.  Our "boys will be boys" approach is reprehensible.  Otherwise we would have serious punishments for drunk driving.  Such that even if it didn't act as a deterrent, it would physically prevent repetition - detention.

But I also know we are never gonna look at it much differently than now.  We have made some small progress, but it has been like pulling teeth, so not likely to change very much more.

[nathanm]

It is interesting how that when it was decided that something more needed to be done, the response was not to increase penalties, but to increase the number of people caught in the dragnet by lowering the BAC limit.

[Red Arrow]

Given the history, the information that is imparted to everyone, everywhere, from elementary school, middle and high school, tv, billboards, radio, and just about any advertising media imaginable - it is premeditated, thought out,  planned and executed intentionally.  Goes to personal responsibility as strongly as any topic in the public forum - probably more than any other.

Channeling 1984?

I didn't say it should go unpunished.  I only said I don't believe it is premeditated attempted murder.

[Vashta Nerada]

Homeland Security 'fusion centers' portrayed as pools of ineptitude, civil liberties intrusions
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/dhs-fusion-centers-portrayed-as-pools-of-ineptitude-and-civil-liberties-intrusions/2012/10/02/10014440-0cb1-11e2-bd1a-b868e65d57eb_story.html

An initiative aimed at improving intelligence sharing has done little to make the country more secure, despite as much as $1.4 billion in federal spending, according to a two-year examination by Senate investigators.

The nationwide network of offices known as "fusion centers" was launched after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to address concerns that local, state and federal authorities were not sharing information effectively about potential terrorist threats.

But after nine years — and regular praise from officials at the Department of Homeland Security — the 77 fusion centers have become pools of ineptitude, waste and civil liberties intrusions, according to a scathing 141-page report by the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs permanent subcommittee on investigations.

The creation and operation of the fusion centers were promoted by the administration of President George W. Bush and later the Obama administration as essential weapons in the fight to build a nationwide network that would keep the country safe from terrorism. The idea was to promote increased collaboration and cooperation among all levels of law enforcement across the country.

But the report documents spending on items that did little to help share intelligence, including gadgets such as "shirt button" cameras, $6,000 laptops and big-screen televisions. One fusion center spent $45,000 on a decked-out SUV that a city official used for commuting.

"In reality, the Subcommittee investigation found that the fusion centers often produced irrelevant, useless or inappropriate intelligence reporting to DHS, and many produced no intelligence reporting whatsoever," the report said.

The bipartisan report, released by subcommittee Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and ranking minority member Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), portrays the fusion center system as ineffective and criticizes the Department of Homeland Security for poor supervision.

In a response Tuesday, the department condemned the report and defended the fusion centers, saying the Senate investigators relied on out-of-date data. The Senate investigators examined fusion center reports in 2009 and 2010 and looked at activity, training and policies over nine years, according to the report.

The statement also said the Senate investigators misunderstood the role of fusion centers, "which is to provide state and local law enforcement analytic support in furtherance of their day-to-day efforts to protect local communities from violence, including that associated with terrorism."

The DHS statement also said that all of the questioned expenses were allowable under the rules.

Department officials have defended the fusion centers in the face of past criticism from the press and internal reviews. DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano and other senior officials have praised the centers as centerpieces of U.S. counterterrorism strategy.

Mike Sena, president of the National Fusion Center Association, an advocacy organization, called the report unfair. Sena, who manages the center in the San Francisco Bay area, said fusion centers have processed more than 22,000 "suspicious activity reports" that have triggered 1,000 federal inquiries or investigations. He said they also have shared some 200 "pieces of data" with the Terrorist Screening Center that provided "actionable intelligence."

The Senate report challenged the value of the training and much of the information produced by the centers. It said that DHS analysts assigned to the fusion centers received just five days of basic training for intelligence reporting. Sena said they received an array of other training as well.

Some analysts at the department's Office of Intelligence and Analysis, which received the fusion center reports, were found to be so unproductive that supervisors imposed quotas for reports, knowing those quotas would diminish the quality of the intelligence, according to the Senate report. Many of those analysts at the DHS intelligence office were contractors.

Investigators found instances in which the analysts used intelligence about U.S. citizens that may have been gathered illegally. In one case, a fusion center in California wrote a report on a notorious gang, the Mongols Motorcycle Club, that had distributed leaflets telling its members to behave when they get stopped by police. The leaflet said members should be courteous, control their emotions and, if drinking, have a designated driver.

"There is nothing illegal or even remotely objectionable [described] in this report," one supervisor wrote about the draft before killing it. "The advice given to the groups' members is protected by the First Amendment."

Financial questions were pervasive, with the report saying oversight has been so lax that department officials do not know exactly how much as been spent on the centers. The official estimates varied between $289 million and $1.4 billion.

A DHS official, who insisted on not being identified because he was not authorized to talk to the press, acknowledged that the department does not closely track the money but said it conducts audits of the fusion spending. The official said that just under half of the fusion centers' budgets comes from the department.

In the statement, the department said its Federal Emergency Management Agency, which administers the grants, provides "wide latitude" for states to decide how to spend the money.

"All of the expenditures questioned in the report are allowable under the grant program guidance, whether or not they are connected with a fusion center," the statement said.

The Senate report said that local and state officials entrusted with the fusion center grants sometimes spent lavishly. More than $2 million was spent on a center for Philadelphia that never opened. In Ohio, officials used the money to buy rugged laptop computers and then gave them to a local morgue. San Diego officials bought 55 flat-screen televisions to help them collect "open source intelligence" — better known as cable television news.

Senate investigators repeatedly questioned the quality of the intelligence reports. A third or more of the reports intended for officials in Washington were discarded because they lacked useful information, had been drawn from media accounts or involved potentially illegal surveillance of U.S. citizens, according to the Senate report.

[Gaspar]

Homeland Security 'fusion centers' portrayed as pools of ineptitude, civil liberties intrusions
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/dhs-fusion-centers-portrayed-as-pools-of-ineptitude-and-civil-liberties-intrusions/2012/10/02/10014440-0cb1-11e2-bd1a-b868e65d57eb_story.html

In the imortal words of Harry Reid, "You don't professionalize unless you federalize."

The good news is that this exercise in failure is about over.  Orlando, Sacramento, and several other airports have been granted wavers to hire private companies. San Diego was the first, gaining a waver years ago and has turned into the model for efficient TSA screening operations.  I fly through there frequently, probably my favorite airport because of the lack of long lines and felt-up old ladies.  They do a lot of secondary screening at the gate.

[nathanm]

I'm not really sure how getting molested by unaccountable federal employees is any worse than being molested by unaccountable private employees? They all follow the same rule book, sadly.

[Teatownclown]

eom

[Gaspar]

I'm not really sure how getting molested by unaccountable federal employees is any worse than being molested by unaccountable private employees? They all follow the same rule book, sadly.

You simply have a better chance of getting caught when molested by private employees when packing a gun in your fumunda. . .and it's a much more enjoyable and efficient experience. 

Anyone who travels through San Diego will tell you that TSA there is a whole different creature than anywhere else.

[nathanm]

Anyone who travels through San Diego will tell you that TSA there is a whole different creature than anywhere else.

I have not heard that to be the case, which would surprise me if they are in fact any better, but I can't personally verify that. It's been some 10 years since I've flown out of San Diego. Do they give you a free massage during the pat down or something?