What is going on east of Dilly Deli?

[Conan71]

Forgive my ignorance, but what would keep Marshall's from operating a brewery? Is there some sort of ceiling on beer production?

On a related note, it's high time for the next governor or legislature to take a hard look at this state's archaic alcohol laws. Sure, other states have them, too, but it's no excuse to keep stupid regulations on the book "just because."

Tulsa has had two brew pubs in the past.  One was way over indebted and poorly managed, the other I'm still not sure why it failed as a couple of very good restarauteurs partnered up on it.

Far as I know there is no ceiling on production.  Eric told me one time why he was not electing to go that route and I honestly cannot now remember the reason why. (We must have been drinking beer at the time).  I think it may have had to do with the cost and perhaps he could not package and distribute the beer if it was a brew pub.  Maybe he's lurking and will chime in.

[SXSW]

Tulsa has had two brew pubs in the past.  One was way over indebted and poorly managed, the other I'm still not sure why it failed as a couple of very good restarauteurs partnered up on it.

Far as I know there is no ceiling on production.  Eric told me one time why he was not electing to go that route and I honestly cannot now remember the reason why. (We must have been drinking beer at the time).  I think it may have had to do with the cost and perhaps he could not package and distribute the beer if it was a brew pub.  Maybe he's lurking and will chime in.

Yes I believe there is some sort of restriction.  I'm sure someone will chime in who knows more about it than I do.  I think we all agree a Marshall's brewery/brewpub at 1st & Elgin across from an expanded McNellies would be AWESOME.

[Nik]

given the close partnership between McNellie's and Marshall's, I wouldn't expect Eric to open a brewpub right across the street from McNellie's even if he decided to go that route.

[Conan71]

given the close partnership between McNellie's and Marshall's, I wouldn't expect Eric to open a brewpub right across the street from McNellie's even if he decided to go that route.

It could see such a scenario if he partnered with Elliott on it.

[rwarn17588]

Tulsa has had two brew pubs in the past. 

What were they?

[Townsend]

What were they?

Cherry Street Brewery was one.  Where Snail is now.

The other was on Memorial.  Can't think of the name.

[Red Arrow]

Tulsa has had two brew pubs in the past.  One was way over indebted and poorly managed, the other I'm still not sure why it failed as a couple of very good restarauteurs partnered up on it.

Far as I know there is no ceiling on production.  Eric told me one time why he was not electing to go that route and I honestly cannot now remember the reason why. (We must have been drinking beer at the time).  I think it may have had to do with the cost and perhaps he could not package and distribute the beer if it was a brew pub.  Maybe he's lurking and will chime in.

I believe I remember Eric saying he wanted to be in the brewing business but not necessarily the restaurant business, perhaps among other things.

[Dana431]

Cherry Street Brewery was one.  Where Snail is now.

The other was on Memorial.  Can't think of the name.

Tulsa Brewing Company

[Conan71]

Tulsa Brewing Company

Where Lanna Thai is now approximately 73rd & Memorial on the east side of the road.

That's also been an Interurban, and plenty of other less memorable restaurants over the years.  I think the building has been there about 30 years now.

Rwarn- Cherry St. Brewery had an elaborate marketing scheme which involved an IPO of stock.  The idea was to raise money, but the idea was also by selling 1 million shares at $5 each (I think that was the formula, sheesh that's been about 18 years or so back now) they would create a base of "owners" who would take pride in "their" brewery and bring their friends and assciates in for a beer and meal.  As another friend related at the time: "Yeah, you pick up a few thousand owners but you also pick up a few thousand potential pains in the donkey."

This was all integrated into the renovation of Lincoln Elementary into Lincoln Plaza.  I was in the middle of all that at the time as I was still in the ad business, but my memory of the development of the overall center and how much the owner/developer of the brewery, Tom Ackley, was involved has faded.

They did everything first class, paid a brew meister a pretty good chunk to locate here, etc.  I can't rembember how long it lasted, maybe 18 to 24 months but they had problems from the start, most notably with their share-holders who were pissed off about snooty service, crappy food, and mediocre beer, but they had $30,000 pieces of craptastic abstract art on the walls.

Whoops, I guess it lasted longer than I thought or perhaps they opened later than 1991, might have been '92 or '93.  I found an article dated June of 1996 announcing the sale of the brewing equipment to a California brew pub for $150K.  I suspect that was a good deal less than it was bought for originally.  There again if they opened late '93 and went BK in late '95 this might fit the timeframe.  What's interesting is it appears it was a Ch. 11 reorganization, but they liquidated it.  This is the central building where Jason's Deli and Gray Snail are now. Those spaces combined made up the brew pub. 

As I recall, great location, great building, great concept, but shitty management seems to have been the major issue.  The shareholders may have even deposed Ackley at one point.

"Jul. 26--What began as a shining hope for investors and patrons wanting a cold one brewed in midtown Tulsa is going west.

The brewing equipment from the Cherry Street Brewery has been sold to a California company for use in a microbrewery.

Workers loaded the stainless steel tanks -- up to 19 feet tall -- and other brewing equipment Thursday for its trip west. The U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Northern District of Oklahoma approved the $150,000 sale as part of the Chapter 11 reorganization by Cherry Street Brewery.

There also will be an auction Wednesday to sell other equipment from the restaurant. Mr. Ed's will run the auction, which will start on site ... "

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-18532885.html


Last I knew Tom Ackley had taken his act to Costa Rica where he's clear cut a beautiful mountain top and built a bed and breakfast.

http://vistavalverde.com/index.htm

[JoeMommaBlake]

I think you'll all be excited to see what's coming in the Blue Dome District in the months to come. In addition to Elliot's bowling alley, we're adding a new retro themed arcade pub to the south of Joe Momma's called "The Max Retropub" (shooting for an April opening. We have the permit.) Even before the pub, a new retail spot called Boomtown Tees will be between Joe Momma's and The Max and a new BBQ place called "Back Alley Blues and BBQ" will be in the back end of the space and will be accessed from the alley (Memphis style). Next up for us...an Alamo Draught House style theater.

Tom and Angie Green (of DFest fame) have opened ENSO, which is a nice new lounge type place at 1st and Detroit. They plan to open The IDL Ballroom (a large music venue which was formerly The Blank Slate) and a dance club called The Electric Circus (formerly Exit 6C). These are well done and are a welcome addition to the entertainment scene in the district.

Lee's is opening East of Dilly Deli and the place formerly known as Templ will/has reopen(ed) as "The Candy Bar." There are additional retail spaces next to Lee's, some of which at least have prospective tenants.

Elliot's bowling alley is on the way and he's opening another bar to the south of that in the space that used to house the lock and key shop.

Don't forget about Sager's loft project. Someday we'll have lofts in the district.

Also....we've got some pretty cool parties and festivals: St. Patrick's Day, Blue Dome Festival, Tulsa Tough, DFest, and our new addition: Tulsa's biggest Mardi Gras party and parade (coming this year).

There are still some great spots in the area and infill opportunities abound. I agree that the red building north of El Guapo's needs to be developed, but the word on the street is that its owners have no intentions of selling or developing. There's a similar story about the lot to the west of McNellie's. There are some great buildings currently being used for other things and maybe someday their use will change to something more attractional.

The Blue Dome Association's members are working hard to combine our resources to promote and improve our neighborhood. I'm optimistic that 2010 will be the best year ever in the Blue Dome District and that our continued growth will prove what can happen when motivated entrepreneurs take some chances.

Keep coming down and supporting Blue Dome Restaurants and venues. We've got a great concentration of local restaurants and bars and we're on our way to being Tulsa's most notable entertainment district.

[rwarn17588]

Where Lanna Thai is now approximately 73rd & Memorial on the east side of the road.

That's also been an Interurban, and plenty of other less memorable restaurants over the years.  I think the building has been there about 30 years now.

Rwarn- Cherry St. Brewery had an elaborate marketing scheme which involved an IPO of stock.  The idea was to raise money, but the idea was also by selling 1 million shares at $5 each (I think that was the formula, sheesh that's been about 18 years or so back now) they would create a base of "owners" who would take pride in "their" brewery and bring their friends and assciates in for a beer and meal.  As another friend related at the time: "Yeah, you pick up a few thousand owners but you also pick up a few thousand potential pains in the donkey."

This was all integrated into the renovation of Lincoln Elementary into Lincoln Plaza.  I was in the middle of all that at the time as I was still in the ad business, but my memory of the development of the overall center and how much the owner/developer of the brewery, Tom Ackley, was involved has faded.

They did everything first class, paid a brew meister a pretty good chunk to locate here, etc.  I can't rembember how long it lasted, maybe 18 to 24 months but they had problems from the start, most notably with their share-holders who were pissed off about snooty service, crappy food, and mediocre beer, but they had $30,000 pieces of craptastic abstract art on the walls.

Whoops, I guess it lasted longer than I thought or perhaps they opened later than 1991, might have been '92 or '93.  I found an article dated June of 1996 announcing the sale of the brewing equipment to a California brew pub for $150K.  I suspect that was a good deal less than it was bought for originally.  There again if they opened late '93 and went BK in late '95 this might fit the timeframe.  What's interesting is it appears it was a Ch. 11 reorganization, but they liquidated it.  This is the central building where Jason's Deli and Gray Snail are now. Those spaces combined made up the brew pub. 

As I recall, great location, great building, great concept, but shitty management seems to have been the major issue.  The shareholders may have even deposed Ackley at one point.

"Jul. 26--What began as a shining hope for investors and patrons wanting a cold one brewed in midtown Tulsa is going west.

The brewing equipment from the Cherry Street Brewery has been sold to a California company for use in a microbrewery.

Workers loaded the stainless steel tanks -- up to 19 feet tall -- and other brewing equipment Thursday for its trip west. The U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Northern District of Oklahoma approved the $150,000 sale as part of the Chapter 11 reorganization by Cherry Street Brewery.

There also will be an auction Wednesday to sell other equipment from the restaurant. Mr. Ed's will run the auction, which will start on site ... "

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-18532885.html


Last I knew Tom Ackley had taken his act to Costa Rica where he's clear cut a beautiful mountain top and built a bed and breakfast.

http://vistavalverde.com/index.htm

Thanks for the information. I was trolling for information because I was wondering whether the lack of a microbrewery in town when I moved here was simply because previous ones weren't managed well or that the evangelicals essentially shut them down in some insidious way.

To be perfectly honest, I want Marshall's to stick around a long time because I really like his product, and wanted to better gauge his odds at long-term liability. If he fails, it's not going to be because of his beer.

[Conan71]

I don't think we need to worry about Marshall's failing.  I think he's selling all the beer he can make right now.

There's two brew pubs in OKC I'm aware of, Bricktown and Belle Isle in 50 Penn Place.  I've eaten at Brick Town and Had Belle Isle's wheat offering at our big regatta in OKC the last two years.  Pretty good brew.

I've had one of the Coop (OKC) beers, I can't remember which now, it was a good beer

http://www.coopaleworks.com/

Hmm doing a Google search, there's also two BJ's Brewhouse restaurants, one at 2425 W. Memorial and another in Norman.  This appears to be a chain or franchise.  I'd not heard of it. 

There's also Coach's in OKC Bricktown and Norman.

So that's six brew pubs and one brewery by my count in OKC, and one brewery for Tulsa.

There are no local ordinances keeping anyone from opening one in Tulsa, it's just the cost of building one adds a ton onto the cost (lowest estimates I've seen for a low-production brewery is about $1mm) of a restaurant.  You would think someone would have stepped up a long time ago and done this again, but apparently no one is interested.

Add in Choc and you've got three micro-breweries and six brew pubs in Oklahoma.  Not bad for a state with backwardsass liquor laws, but it could always be better.

[dbacks fan]

Quote from: Townsend on December 17, 2009, 05:11:24 pm
Cherry Street Brewery was one.  Where Snail is now.

The other was on Memorial.  Can't think of the name.

Tulsa Brewing Company

When it originally opened in 1983 or 1984 it was Flakey Jake's, very similar to Fuddrucker's which also opened in the same time frame on 31st east of 169. I seem to remember hearing, and I could bbe wrong, but Fuddrucker's closed after a person who was under 18 was injured in an accident in the kitchen using a meat slicer. Personaly I think at the time it was the fact they were over priced for the economy of Tulsa in the early 80's.

[swake]

I won't name names, but, what I have heard about the two brewpubs was this:

One of the Brewpubs was part owned by the property owner and the restaurant was placed heavily into debt on the buildout of the facility, the brewpub went under due the load placed on that business by the debt and the property owner took possession, free and clear, of the results of the buildout. If that wasn't the original plan, it turned out to be a very nice deal for the owner.

Brewpub two, one of the partners (the managing one) had another unrelated failing business and started to pay the bills of his failing business out of the brewpub, the other owners found out and were pissed, but never found a good way to unwind the business before the infighting killed it due to neglect.

The restrictions were that a Brewpub can't brew above 3.2% and can't sell offsite to retail customers, the latter may have since changed.

[dbacks fan]

Speaking of beer.....