Re: Cherry Street Parking Plan

[TheArtist]

 Instead of spending the money on building a parking garage in this area, or Brookside or some other areas,,, would rather see some good mass transit options.

If there were more T-Town Trolleys running so that they came by every, say, 20 minutes or so through; Downtown, Brookside and Cherry Street, eventually the Pearl, Blue Dome, Baseball Stadium, etc. I think we could start shifting peoples habits to thinking about using the "trolleys" and mass transit more.  We can already see how the T-Town Trolley is starting to be used more and more in downtown.

As all of these areas grow and infill there will be more to see and do and thus people will spend longer in each area and perhaps go to several areas in a day or evening. A few strategically placed, city parking garages might be worth considerering, but they dont have to be directly IN or on, say Cherry Street, just as long as they are along the trolley routes between these areas. (some shared parking arrangements will work perfectly fine as well, the church parking lots, OSU Tulsa, TCC Metro, etc.)

Higher frequency of the Trolleys on a regular basis will also give them higher visibility and reassurance that people will not have to wait long, upping the convenience factor.  

We can already see the beginnings of our core slowly transitioning into a more dense and urban model in which mass transit can, and should, play a healthy role.  I dont think we need to add any more parking at this time, just use what we have more wisely in conjunction with mass transit. (another option instead of the "trolley" could be a specially painted and designated set of busses, ones that are easily identifiable to the average person and visitors as being just for the routes in and around these downtown areas. Perhaps black with some gold deco lettering and detailing. would also love to see the Tulsa Trolleys made uniquely Tulsa by being painted black with gold deco lettering and such, creating a unique brand and look for Tulsa and its downtown/mid-town.) 

[Red Arrow]

You'll just go behind a dumpster or did you mean the bums will use them as campers?

Pay parking is a good way to pay for the service (property is not free) and allocate a limited resource (in urban neighborhoods, it should be a limited resource). 

I was referring to pay toilets in bus and airport terminals in the 1950s and 60s.  I think they were pretty much gone after that.  Urinals were usually free but if you needed to sit, it cost a dime.  There was often one stall that was free but you needed to be pretty desperate to use it.  If businesses didn't use the space for customer rest rooms, they could use it for more retail area. Restaurants could put in a few more tables.  Restrooms don't make money.  Maybe you should pay extra to use the toilet.  Why should I subsidize your needs if I don't need to go.  Note that I do not advocate pay toilets.  I am using them as an example of a non-revenue service that is part of the cost of doing business for many businesses.  In a city with minimal Public Transit, I consider parking to be part of the cost of doing business.  I also think Tulsa has way too much surface area devoted to parking.  Parking garages with "free" parking for customers with a validation from a local business are a possibility. 

Parking is almost never free.  Parking at the malls is reflected in the price of things purchased there.  It's large scale shared parking.

[Red Arrow]

Parking or Transit.  If Tulsa had more transit, it would need less parking.  Perhaps remote parking would work.  For downtown, I think Transit is the answer.  A 20 minute wait is probably a bit long for transit to be convenient during the busy hours.  10  to 15 minutes is tolerable.  I have seen studies that report most people will willingly walk about 1/4 mile to transit.  If you need a schedule during the busy part of the day to use public transit, it needs to run more often.  The real trolley where I was a kid ran about every 10 min during rush hour, 5 min on some route segments. It ran about a 15 minute headway in the off hours during the day.  Later at night it ran on about 1/2 hr headway.  Unless you really cut your time thin, if you missed the trolley the next one would still get you there on time.

Artist:
I agree with a distinctive paint job for the vehicles you mention.  I will suggest a color other than black for Tulsa summers.  It adds to the air-conditioning load.  Gold trim on black does look good though. I remember the John Player (cigarette sponsor) Lotus Formula 1 cars of the 70's.

[TheArtist]

Parking or Transit.  If Tulsa had more transit, it would need less parking.  Perhaps remote parking would work.  For downtown, I think Transit is the answer.  A 20 minute wait is probably a bit long for transit to be convenient during the busy hours.  10  to 15 minutes is tolerable.  I have seen studies that report most people will willingly walk about 1/4 mile to transit.  If you need a schedule during the busy part of the day to use public transit, it needs to run more often.  The real trolley where I was a kid ran about every 10 min during rush hour, 5 min on some route segments. It ran about a 15 minute headway in the off hours during the day.  Later at night it ran on about 1/2 hr headway.  Unless you really cut your time thin, if you missed the trolley the next one would still get you there on time.

Artist:

I agree with a distinctive paint job for the vehicles you mention.  I will suggest a color other than black for Tulsa summers.  It adds to the air-conditioning load.  Gold trim on black does look good though. I remember the John Player (cigarette sponsor) Lotus Formula 1 cars of the 70's.

How bout a soft metallic, medium Grey paint job, Chrome trim, and Black deco lettering.  Distinctive and sexy.    Or a Champaign Silver paint job, Chrome trim and Gold deco lettering. Tres chic.

[Red Arrow]

How bout a soft metallic, medium Grey paint job, Chrome trim, and Black deco lettering.  Distinctive and sexy.    Or a Champaign Silver paint job, Chrome trim and Gold deco lettering. Tres chic.

As my eyes get older, I think I would prefer the contrast of the black lettering.

[FOTD]

Pigeon Hole Parking lots..... http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/02/11/pigeonhole-parking-lot/

ACCOMMODATING CARS
How parking stacks up in city
http://www.thestar.com/article/229806

[jtcrissup]

Thread jacking this to be BACK on topic...I am copying/pasting from a word file that has notes on the proposal (so some of the formatting sucks, apologies).  I live in Swan Lake Neighborhood and often walk to Cherry St for dining/entertainment, so I am thrilled about this plan to make the area more focused on pedestrians and less on vehicles.  Others have thoughts?  Also, I will try to post some of the "renderings":

Cherry Street Parking Improvement
Angled Parking Project
July 2009


Advantages to changing to angled parking:

1.   Significant increase of on-street parking. 
a.   Estimated new parking spaces to be 150 from the current 43 metered spaces from Utica to Peoria.

2.   Retailers and businesses will enjoy tremendous increase in the number of cars parked in front of their buildings.
a.   This increase in parking spaces will directly increase the number of pedestrians walking, shopping, and dining on Cherry Street.

3.   The angled parking model has proven very successful in places like Utica Square, The Plaza in Kansas City, and Old Town Scottsdale in Arizona.  It was recently brought back to the Brady District in downtown Tulsa with great acceptance.

4.   To accommodate angled parking on the entire north side of Cherry Street and some parallel parking on the south side of Cherry Street, the center line of 15th Street must be moved towards the South creating a true two-lane roadway on 15th Street.
a.   This change to the center line will only allow for one eastbound lane and one westbound lane eliminating the patches of 3 and 4 lane sections that are currently present on Cherry Street.
b.   The creation of only two drivable lanes will result in a traffic calming environment with decreased vehicular speeds.  It also lends itself to a more inviting, walkable entertainment and dining district.
c.   Maximum MPH will still be 25 MPH but due to the new required observance of cars backing out onto 15th Street, the actual average MPH could be reduced to approximately 15-20MPH.

5.   Current funding and timing challenges could delay implementation of project. 
a.   New plan is obviously not in the budget.
b.   Desired future improvements may include:  new landscaping and streetscaping of the corners of each half block (benches, gaslamps, trees);  aesthetic and functional crosswalks that are appealing to the pedestrian and vehicular eye must be designed and approved by Public Works.  Ultimately, thermoplastic striping would be desired as a long term striping preference.  However, it is suggested that traditional painted striping be applied now to commence the angled parking project and thermoplastic striping be applied once funds are available. 

[jtcrissup]

Sorry, I can't seem to make it happen for the renderings.  The notes are pretty self explanatory.  I think it is great to reduce traffic lanes in lieu of more parking on the street.  No idea if the street parking will be "free", but I would hope so.  I assume they will be metered though since it says "150 from the current 43 metered spaces".  I think meters are ridiculous.

Speaking of parking meters...Has anyone seen the "tourism" billboard for Oklahoma on the Indian Nation Turnpike (headed NB just south of I-40/Henryetta). 

It says (more/less) with a solid blue background and big letters:

"OKLAHOMA
__________________________
Home of the First Parking Meter"

Seriously, not to thread jack myself, but I almost threw up in my mouth when I read this.  You've got to be kidding me.

/Adam Sandler "Who are the ad wizards that came up with that one???"

[jtcrissup]

Trying to upload this time (vs link to image online)

[tshane250]

I think angled parking for Cherry Street is a brilliant idea!  I also think many of the streets downtown would benefit from angled parking, since in many instances there are way more lanes than necessary. 

[Red Arrow]

Somewhere between "way too many lanes" and "it's too crowded" is a balance.  I won't pretend to know where it is.  The only reason I drive on Main St in Jenks to go home form work is because the wait to get on the Creek is only overwhelmed by the drive south of the Creek on Memorial at the time I go home from work. I have no interest in the stores there.  Other times I use the turnpike and supposedly pay my way. The cash toll from Memorial to Peoria/Elm just went from $.55 to $.70 for about a 4 mile trip.  It used to cost $.30 to cross the river on the Creek compared to exiting at Riverside. I haven't seen the Memorial to Riverside cash toll yet. When merchants get their way and calm traffic to a crawl, by-passes result.  Oops!

Parking meters kind of guarantee a turnover for local merchants.  They also discourage some customers.  Unless you have a really unique store, be prepared to have parking meters chase your customers to the mall. It's not 1940 anymore.

These issues are all part of trying to change a city developed with the automobile to a city like those developed with no transit or mass transit.  Good Luck to us.

Just trying to present an alternate point of view.

[Conan71]

I think angled parking for Cherry Street is a brilliant idea!  I also think many of the streets downtown would benefit from angled parking, since in many instances there are way more lanes than necessary. 

I'd agree if so many drivers didn't have their head up their donkey.

[Nic Nac]

Sorry, I can't seem to make it happen for the renderings.  The notes are pretty self explanatory.  I think it is great to reduce traffic lanes in lieu of more parking on the street.  No idea if the street parking will be "free", but I would hope so.  I assume they will be metered though since it says "150 from the current 43 metered spaces".  I think meters are ridiculous.

Speaking of parking meters...Has anyone seen the "tourism" billboard for Oklahoma on the Indian Nation Turnpike (headed NB just south of I-40/Henryetta). 

It says (more/less) with a solid blue background and big letters:

"OKLAHOMA
__________________________
Home of the First Parking Meter"

Seriously, not to thread jack myself, but I almost threw up in my mouth when I read this.  You've got to be kidding me.

/Adam Sandler "Who are the ad wizards that came up with that one???"

First off, I like the parking plan.  I've always wished Brookside and Cherry St. could offer a more relaxed neighborhood business district feel like Gaylord & Pearl in Denver.  Part of the difference is traffic.  This slows traffic & reduces noise (and of course provide more parking).  Obviously this is not practical for Brookside but I think it's great for 15th.  

Second, I haven't seen the billboard but that is pretty hilarious.  Reminds me of the Anthony Clark stand up routine from the early 90's.... He says "Who the hell came up with the slogan "Oklahoma is OK!"?"   He suggests that the runner up slogans probably included   "Oklahoma. Trees are made of wood."   and   "Oklahoma, Oklahoma. There I said it twice.".  

[TheTed]

I think angled parking for Cherry Street is a brilliant idea!  I also think many of the streets downtown would benefit from angled parking, since in many instances there are way more lanes than necessary. 

Much of the downtown street parking, outside of the few blocks at the heart of downtown, is lightly used.

A much better use for some of our excess street capacity would be protected bike lanes, or at least some type of bus/bike lane. Taking away an entire lane on every downtown one-way would have almost no effect, given the lack of traffic at any point other than the 15 minutes after a BOK show.

[jtcrissup]

When merchants get their way and calm traffic to a crawl, by-passes result.  Oops!

Parking meters kind of guarantee a turnover for local merchants.  They also discourage some customers.  Unless you have a really unique store, be prepared to have parking meters chase your customers to the mall. It's not 1940 anymore.

These issues are all part of trying to change a city developed with the automobile to a city like those developed with no transit or mass transit.  Good Luck to us.

Just trying to present an alternate point of view.

Totally agree with you Red Arrow (about by-passes occuring and the suckiness of parking meters), I "by-pass" Brookside via Utica unless I am going somewhere specific on Brookside.  So, I agree that by-passes occur, but really it is a net gain for business because it "culls" out the folks that are going to just drive by anyway (and not stop).

Further, those who never come to Cherry St because "there's no parking" will no longer have that lame "excuse" of no parking (which I think is only a TRUE problem a few hours of the week at best, but I digress). Whether the spaces are free or metered is the next point of contention, and I am sure that will be the next lame excuse..."I'm not putting a quarter in a meter to go there!"

I do HOPE it does send people using 15th as a "commuter" route a different way (i.e. frontage road on either side of BA would be my first recommendation).  My fear, however, is 21st becomes that path, and 21st is already a "drag race" between Utica and Peoria for those with head up said donkey. 

Side note: I have asked a City Engineer (during a Swan Lake neighborhood meeting) if we could put a pedestrian crossing at 21st/St. Louis with a blinking yellow light to "alert" motorists that *gasp* people like to cross there on foot to go to/from Swan Lake and Woodward Park (this is a VERY popular place for neighborhood folks to cross that are out for a walk).  He promptly replied "We would not consider that as it would give the pedestrian a false sense of security".