WNBA for Tulsa?

[PonderInc]

Cannon Fodder - thanks for the first serious reply to this topic.
(Everyone else on the forum is 12 years old...but, you, sir, wear the grown-up-boy pants...)

A couple points:

1. We already have the facility, so let's play.  It's not one of those "if you build it we will come" deals that so many professional (mens) teams demand.  We've got a great arena.  Let's fill it up with events.  (And make more money.)  (And attract more visitors from throughout the region!)

2. Although some of the fellers on this forum don't appear to be fans of women's sports, I can assure you that they exist.  Want proof?  Go to a (frequently sold out) OU women's basketball game (2007-2008 average attendance: 10,254.  3rd in the nation for women's b-ball).  (Last year, the OU men--with a first round NBA draft pick--averaged 11,490.)

3. If you've ever been to a women's basketball game, you'll notice that the majority of fans are (gasp!) families and seniors!  It seems that the younger generation of fans doesn't discriminate based on gender (at last!); families can better afford the ticket price of a women's game; and the older generation likes watching "good fundamentals" (you know, like teamwork, defense, and players who can make their freethrows).

Oklahoma got a slow start when it comes to women's basketball.  (We were still playing six-on-six in Oklahoma high schools until 1995.  OU cancelled its women's b-ball program for a short time in 1990.)  But as soon as Sheri Coale started kicking a$s in high-heels (standard-issue prophylactic used to prevent lesbian jokes from insecure doofus types), a lot of folks changed their minds pretty quickly about the game.

Tulsa has a great opportunity.  Let's not blow it with cynicism and thinly-veiled sexism.

[Hoss]

Cannon Fodder - thanks for the first serious reply to this topic.
(Everyone else on the forum is 12 years old...but, you, sir, wear the grown-up-boy pants...)

A couple points:

1. We already have the facility, so let's play.  It's not one of those "if you build it we will come" deals that so many professional (mens) teams demand.  We've got a great arena.  Let's fill it up with events.  (And make more money.)  (And attract more visitors from throughout the region!)

2. Although some of the fellers on this forum don't appear to be fans of women's sports, I can assure you that they exist.  Want proof?  Go to a (frequently sold out) OU women's basketball game (2007-2008 average attendance: 10,254.  3rd in the nation for women's b-ball).  (Last year, the OU men--with a first round NBA draft pick--averaged 11,490.)

3. If you've ever been to a women's basketball game, you'll notice that the majority of fans are (gasp!) families and seniors!  It seems that the younger generation of fans doesn't discriminate based on gender (at last!); families can better afford the ticket price of a women's game; and the older generation likes watching "good fundamentals" (you know, like teamwork, defense, and players who can make their freethrows).

Oklahoma got a slow start when it comes to women's basketball.  (We were still playing six-on-six in Oklahoma high schools until 1995.  OU cancelled its women's b-ball program for a short time in 1990.)  But as soon as Sheri Coale started kicking a$s in high-heels (standard-issue prophylactic used to prevent lesbian jokes from insecure doofus types), a lot of folks changed their minds pretty quickly about the game.

Tulsa has a great opportunity.  Let's not blow it with cynicism and thinly-veiled sexism.

I just can't help but think they're putting the cart before the horse here.  The WNBA has already stated that they are in dire financial straits.  Several teams folded, they've scaled the roster back from 13 to 11, and other problem areas.

Can you imagine the guffawing from everyone when/if we should get this franchise if the WNBA folds?  What to do then?  If the CHL or AF2 folds, big deal; it was a minor league and we could find others.  But the WNBA is tied to the NBA forever more.

I think they better get financials from the league before committing.

[USRufnex]

Cannon Fodder - thanks for the first serious reply to this topic.
(Everyone else on the forum is 12 years old...but, you, sir, wear the grown-up-boy pants...)

Fair enough....... vision of a Tulsa woman-with-baby-stroller touring WalMart parking lots comes to mind.....

My sexist, conspiracy theory, kneejerk first reaction would be that some OKC-ers are only doing this so they can emasculate Tulsa-- not fair, I know.... but after all, WNBA in Tulsa has been brought up by certain "Average Joes" on this forum in the past to try to "feminize" MLS and men's soccer while arguing for a publicly funded ballpark..... my more realistic theory is that OKC is pretty much tapped out on corporate support for the NBA, that luring the AHL to replace the Blazers is more important to them than hosting a WNBA team, so they lack the financials... and they're testing the waters in Tulsa...

A couple points:

1. We already have the facility, so let's play.  It's not one of those "if you build it we will come" deals that so many professional (mens) teams demand.  We've got a great arena.  Let's fill it up with events.  (And make more money.)  (And attract more visitors from throughout the region!)

Valid point.  

Of course, we could have saved tens of millions of dollars by not going "iconic" with our arena and actually built the stadium Lamar Hunt and MLS requested for around $60mil back in 2003-- and if private funds could have been spent for that purpose rather than paying somebody $10mil to design three man-made islands in the middle of the Arkansas, who knows?... but I digress... yes, a 100% sales tax funded iconic arena has been built, so why not house another pro team in it that can pay rent?  

However, I would also argue that the WNBA would not be a real possibility for Tulsa if OKC had not already done the massive civic improvements, and Clay Bennett hadn't already spent hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the Sonics and move them from Seattle.  In one sense, the WNBA exists for the most part due to the largesse of the NBA and Tulsa's opportunity only exists due to OKC's efforts..... conversely, if OKC had spent tens of millions of dollars to lure an MLS team to play in Edmond and that team's "owner-investors" wanted to have a Tulsa WPS team-- http://www.womensprosoccer.com/ --playing at the new ballpark or the old Driller Park, well sure.... why not?  

2. Although some of the fellers on this forum don't appear to be fans of women's sports, I can assure you that they exist.  Want proof?  Go to a (frequently sold out) OU women's basketball game (2007-2008 average attendance: 10,254.  3rd in the nation for women's b-ball).  (Last year, the OU men--with a first round NBA draft pick--averaged 11,490.)

A few months before moving here from Chicago, I wanted to go see the NCAA women's 2nd round tourney game at the Rosemont Horizon for TU versus DePaul.  I would have been an hour late so I watched the game at home on ESPN.  Great crowd, although Ray Meyer had just died and the game was unique for that reason.... still, fun to watch, emotional win for DePaul when TU outplayed them for the most part...

3. If you've ever been to a women's basketball game, you'll notice that the majority of fans are (gasp!) families and seniors!  It seems that the younger generation of fans doesn't discriminate based on gender (at last!); families can better afford the ticket price of a women's game; and the older generation likes watching "good fundamentals" (you know, like teamwork, defense, and players who can make their freethrows).

Silly Ponder... only lesbians play and watch basketball.... and only hispanics play and watch soccer....    

[TheArtist]

I dont know what the "emasculazation" thing is about. I have always considered Tulsa to be a beautiful, classy lady and OKC her big, dusty, cowboy brother lol.  At this point with what I now know about whats going on, I say lets go for it. I would actually go to the games to support the local team. I may be completely wrong, but it has seemed to me that Tulsa isnt really a big, "lets go to a sports game" type of town, (except for golf perhaps). But I think as our demographics change, and the character of our city is starting to change, I think we will start to get out and be more supportive of the local teams. And indeed, I dont see that we have anything to lose by trying the WNBA thing here, and if it works it could be a plus for landing MLS by being one more example of how Tulsa does support its sports teams.

[brianh]

I think this lady Rollerderby thing is set to take off big time. I would like to see something like that downtown instead of out in Broken Arrow. I can't bring myself to drive out to BA.

[TheTed]

I think this lady Rollerderby thing is set to take off big time. I would like to see something like that downtown instead of out in Broken Arrow. I can't bring myself to drive out to BA.

Thank you. I think the same thing every time I see a poster of theirs.

I know teams in other cities play at an older arena downtown or something. It'd be great to see some Tulsa roller derby, with beer served, of course, at the Convention Center arena on Saturday nights. Seems like a perfect fit. I can't imagine their target audience lives anywhere near Broken Arrow.

[Townsend]

Thank you. I think the same thing every time I see a poster of theirs.

I know teams in other cities play at an older arena downtown or something. It'd be great to see some Tulsa roller derby, with beer served, of course, at the Convention Center arena on Saturday nights. Seems like a perfect fit. I can't imagine their target audience lives anywhere near Broken Arrow.

I lived in BA for years.   Trust me, there is a roller derby target audience.

[AVERAGE JOE]

Fair enough....... vision of a Tulsa woman-with-baby-stroller touring WalMart parking lots comes to mind.....

My sexist, conspiracy theory, kneejerk first reaction would be that some OKC-ers are only doing this so they can emasculate Tulsa-- not fair, I know.... but after all, WNBA in Tulsa has been brought up by certain "Average Joes" on this forum in the past to try to "feminize" MLS and men's soccer while arguing for a publicly funded ballpark.....

W. T. F. are you talking about?

[Conan71]

I lived in BA for years.   Trust me, there is a roller derby target audience.

I figured Mannford or Sapulpa would be more of their demographic.

[Townsend]

I figured Mannford or Sapulpa would be more of their demographic.

Trust me...they're there

[USRufnex]

W. T. F. are you talking about?

The WNBA comments were specifically made in this thread.....
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=4221.0

Funny how all those threads and posts from Nov 2005 until 200? kinda disappeared from sight.... and you became much more diplomatic once Global Development Partners focused on an East End mixed use proposal including a ballpark....

Another Major League Soccer in Tulsa thread...
« on: May 08, 2007, 03:01:25 pm »
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=6533.0

--- At least I was able to find my previous comment on WNBA in Tulsa.....

Sales Tax Increase down the Pike
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2008, 11:37:11 pm »
Despite Tulsa's small size, Major League Soccer (you knew I'd get to it) [Wink] ... was proactively interested in Tulsa... a Conventions, Sports & Leisure feasability study in 2003 showed that Tulsa could be projected to average over 14,600 fans per game, while the same CS&L study for Kansas City projected an average attendance of 12,000 fans per game... I still believe we had the fanbase, but lacked the local corporate support to get it off the ground...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----These days, I think Tulsa's only shot is getting the WNBA Seattle team out of pity from Bennett.... or a top level Arena football team.... once again, it appears neither of those leagues have actively sought out Tulsa....

[AVERAGE JOE]

The WNBA comments were made in this thread.....
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=4221.0

Funny how those all those threads and posts from Nov 2005 until 200? kinda disappeared from sight.... and you became much more diplomatic once Global Development Partners focused on an East End mixed use proposal including a ballpark....

Another Major League Soccer in Tulsa thread...
« on: May 08, 2007, 03:01:25 pm »
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=6533.0

--- At least I was able to find my previous comment on WNBA in Tulsa.....

Sales Tax Increase down the Pike
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2008, 11:37:11 pm »
Despite Tulsa's small size, Major League Soccer (you knew I'd get to it) [Wink] ... was proactively interested in Tulsa... a Conventions, Sports & Leisure feasability study in 2003 showed that Tulsa could be projected to average over 14,600 fans per game, while the same CS&L study for Kansas City projected an average attendance of 12,000 fans per game... I still believe we had the fanbase, but lacked the local corporate support to get it off the ground...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----These days, I think Tulsa's only shot is getting the WNBA Seattle team out of pity from Bennett.... or a top level Arena football team.... once again, it appears neither of those leagues have actively sought out Tulsa....

Okay. For a minute I thought I'd made a comment about the WNBA, which would be weird because I've never spent 2 seconds thinking about the WNBA. I certainly wouldn't have to drag the lady hoopsters into an argument to emasculate soccer players... they do that perfectly well on their own. 

Hey, seen this lately? Now, what were you saying about diplomacy?

[USRufnex]

I figured Mannford or Sapulpa would be more of their demographic.

met a couple of the players at the Mercury Lounge last year....

[USRufnex]

I certainly wouldn't have to drag the lady hoopsters into an argument to emasculate soccer players... they do that perfectly well on their own. 

Thank you for proving my point by using the same rhetorical "soccer is for sissies" implication you tried before....

You got so crazy in a thread from 2006, that Kenosha had to talk you down.... nothing new, though....

This from 2007....
"QUIT MISREPRESENTING MY POSITION, you f*cking liar. Liar, liar, liar, filthy, stinking, pondscum sucking LIAR............................YOU ARE A FILTHY LIAR...........YOU PATHETIC LIAR................ so that's a lousy lie even for a pathological LIAR like yourself.......................LIAR LIAR LIAR."

[cannon_fodder]

I watched a little WNBA on ESPN2 last night. Those girls are good.  Fast, fundamental basketball.