61st & Peoria

[Conan71]

According to you and Gasious, you don't have a "workable roadmap" ..."these people" do not deserve assistance the way you portray the situation. "These people" are parasites from your vantage point.

What do you do about it? You re educate and re train them while providing survival assistance for them in the meantime. You do not rely on religious institutions to perform these functions. And you do not let a few failures in the system serve as examples to why it's failing.

We are on the same page.  That's always been my position.  Where we seem to differ is in accepting the reality of what we are NOT requiring in exchange for a hand-up.

In my mind, assistance would be free tuition to a trade school, college, or high school/GED program while providing subsistence (food stamps, housing allowance, $$ for basic life necessities) or some sort of minimum working requirement to an individual to help them rise above poverty.  As much as people want to believe there are limits on TANF, SNAP, etc. it's quite easy to stay in these programs with absolutely zero accountability for educating one's way out of the system and eventually becoming independent.

When I see someone using their EBT card while texting on a new iPhone 5, wearing the latest Nike sneakers, Abercrombie clothes, fake nails, tats, and lots of hair work, it makes my blood boil and I make an automatic assumption they are gaming the system.  For some people it's a matter of not making proper decisions regarding life's priorities because no one makes them prioritize.  Nutrition and shelter should be a priority not $150 sneakers or an $89 a month data plan.

[Townsend]

When I see someone using their EBT card while texting on a new iPhone 5, wearing the latest Nike sneakers, Abercrombie clothes, fake nails, tats, and lots of hair work, it makes my blood boil and I make an automatic assumption they are gaming the system. 

While I don't disagree with you.  That would bother me as well.  I've never seen that.

[Conan71]

While I don't disagree with you.  That would bother me as well.  I've never seen that.

Warehouse Market.

Live a little!

On the topic, are you aware that Red Bull is EBT eligible?  It's considered a nutritional supplement.

[Teatownclown]

"Well, they passed a law in '64
To give those who ain't got, a little more
But it only goes so far
'Cause the law don't change another's mind
When all it sees at the hiring time
Is the line on the color bar
But who knows "
Bruce Hornsby

Try to not be so judgmental.

[Conan71]

"Well, they passed a law in '64
To give those who ain't got, a little more
But it only goes so far
'Cause the law don't change another's mind
When all it sees at the hiring time
Is the line on the color bar
But who knows "
Bruce Hornsby

Try to not be so judgmental.

Because Bruce Hornsby knows what it's like to be black.  Got it.  Great song BTW.

[rdj]

I believe you are using second hand information to draw inferences. Kids from Country Club look just like kids from nearby Newton and Union. Kids go through fences, steal golf balls and turn over trash cans everywhere. I did it. My friends did it and we all roamed through our hoods playing fast and loose. Part of growing up. Mostly harmless.

But when a subsidized housing addition is nearby its criminal behavior?

I would have thought the businessmen playing golf would have identified with the Wall Street type business acumen they showed.

So, if a trusted friend tells me they personally hit a golf ball, saw a pre-teen squeeze thru the fence, run to the location in the fairway where their golf ball was seen to lie (granted from 230 or so yards away), then run back to the fence, squeeze thru said fence and then my friend upon arriving at the same location finds their ball is no longer in the area hears a sales pitch to sell them a ball identical to the one they just hit, complete with his personal mark, that would be second hand information drawing inferences?

If that is the case, I'd either love or hate to have you on a jury if I was on trial for murder.

[Townsend]

Warehouse Market.

Live a little!

On the topic, are you aware that Red Bull is EBT eligible?  It's considered a nutritional supplement.

Pass.

I'm sure many things are eligible that shouldn't be.  I'm guessing the manufacturers push for it.

[DolfanBob]

Because Bruce Hornsby knows what it's like to be black.  Got it.  Great song BTW.

Bruce Hornsby is black?

[AquaMan]

I think first hand eye witness accounts from members and staff of kids coming from and returning to the houses is pretty good evidence of the neighborhoods from which they came.

I don't consider property destruction and vandalism to be petty or harmless, whether it's a neighbor's house or "the man's" country club.  James Q. Wilson's "Broken Windows" has a pretty good track record in this regard.

Dude, look up the term "hearsay".

Now its property destruction and vandalism? They moved on from golf ball extortion? One solution....fix the dang holes in the fence.

[AquaMan]

So, if a trusted friend tells me they personally hit a golf ball, saw a pre-teen squeeze thru the fence, run to the location in the fairway where their golf ball was seen to lie (granted from 230 or so yards away), then run back to the fence, squeeze thru said fence and then my friend upon arriving at the same location finds their ball is no longer in the area hears a sales pitch to sell them a ball identical to the one they just hit, complete with his personal mark, that would be second hand information drawing inferences?

If that is the case, I'd either love or hate to have you on a jury if I was on trial for murder.

Psst. Hey man. I got some primo Titleist. Half price. Barely used man. Really...

Hearsay dude. It never works in court or even when described in minute details. Its just he said, she said. I'm sure your trusted friends never embellish, exaggerate or fabricate, but guess what? Some do.

Your friends got intimidated by pre-teens?

[nathanm]

When I see someone using their EBT card while texting on a new iPhone 5, wearing the latest Nike sneakers, Abercrombie clothes, fake nails, tats, and lots of hair work, it makes my blood boil and I make an automatic assumption they are gaming the system.  For some people it's a matter of not making proper decisions regarding life's priorities because no one makes them prioritize.  Nutrition and shelter should be a priority not $150 sneakers or an $89 a month data plan.

How about a national minimum income, with government work to go with it if you can't find any and are not disabled to the point of being unable to work?

I'm not really sure what a generous uncle who will buy you frivolous things has to do with being able to eat, though. It may be that we need to require people to provide proof of income (or lack thereof) more often, but plenty of people have nice things and little income, whether it be because the nice things were purchased before the loss of a job or because of the aforementioned generous relatives. Or their clothes could be cheap knockoffs or purchased from one of our many thrift stores. You really have no idea. Assuming things about other people ends up saying more about you than it does the people you're making assumptions about.

I'm sure it would make you feel better if they had messed up hair, dirty jeans, a torn t-shirt, and no cell phone. I've always found that dressing like smile is the best way to get a job, after all.

[Red Arrow]

How about a national minimum income, with government work to go with it if you can't find any and are not disabled to the point of being unable to work?

Give me a minimum income I where I can keep my toys and buy a new BMW and I'm outa the regular work force tomorrow.  I'm too old to do hard physical labor so find me a cushy desk job for the government.  Sounds great. 

[AquaMan]

How about a national minimum income, with government work to go with it if you can't find any and are not disabled to the point of being unable to work?

I'm not really sure what a generous uncle who will buy you frivolous things has to do with being able to eat, though. It may be that we need to require people to provide proof of income (or lack thereof) more often, but plenty of people have nice things and little income, whether it be because the nice things were purchased before the loss of a job or because of the aforementioned generous relatives. Or their clothes could be cheap knockoffs or purchased from one of our many thrift stores. You really have no idea. Assuming things about other people ends up saying more about you than it does the people you're making assumptions about.

I'm sure it would make you feel better if they had messed up hair, dirty jeans, a torn t-shirt, and no cell phone. I've always found that dressing like smile is the best way to get a job, after all.

Well said Nathan. Back in the Nixon years we used to hear that same rant, "he is on welfare but drives a late model car and has a new color TV" and of course the welfare babies rant. As though poor people should not have decent transportation and the same color TV running the same commercials advertising the same items the rest of us wanted. When you looked at the big picture, their housing costs were more modest, their travel limited and their  property taxes miniscule. They were the primary users of mass transit and their schools were sub par. It is about priorities but just because poor minorities have different priorities (family, church, fashion, glitz, whatever) doesn't mean they are all welfare queens.

I've known fairly well heeled people who were down on their luck but still kept appearances for quite some time to not only save face but to stay in the game. Once you're identified as in trouble financially, it becomes even harder to survive.

We want our poor to not just be plainly identifiable as poor, we want them to suffer. Its our Calvinist heritage i guess.

[guido911]

Here comes the red card:

Kansas officials are considering replacing the current benefits card for residents who get food stamps with a bright red one.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/01/11/4006586/kansas-considering-new-red-card.html#storylink=cpy

[patric]

Thought it might be a good idea to post something about 61st and Peoria in the 61st and Peoria thread...


Many of the complexes are owned by limited liability companies formed by out-of-state investors. The companies take a "hands-off" approach to management and aren't bothered by the crime as long as the checks keep coming, say longtime residents of the area.

Records show Fairmont Terrace is owned by two California-based limited liability companies: D.K. Ukiah Properties LLC and 1574 Pacific LLC.

Community activists and neighbors say recent efforts to communicate with Fairmont Terrace's owners about safety concerns have been unsuccessful.

Records list Constance Reynolds of Alameda, Calif., as the sole member and manager of 1574 Pacific LLC, while Doug Solis of Mendocino County, Calif., is listed as managing member of DK Ukiah Properties LLC.

HUD did not respond to a World request for information about its policies and inspections of Fairmont Terrace.

A Tulsa World investigation has found that 17 multi-family properties accept Section 8 rental subsidies exist in the area surrounding Fairmont Terrace, excluding small developments of a few units. Eight of those propoerties are owned by out-of-state interests.

In terms of total individual Section 8 apartment units, out-of-state interests own about two-thirds of those available in the area.

Four properties, including Fairmont Terrace, are "project-based Section 8" developments owned by private companies. Funds are paid directly to the owner by HUD and cannot be used by the tenant elsewhere.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20130112_296_0_ahrefh413316