Are you receiving the aveage pay in private industries

[shadows]

When viewing the posts on the Tulsa forum one assumes that the poster are made up of the elitist which gives the illusion that the common working poor are not represented.
Many of the poster hide behind false names and data.
Being the average pay in the city is now $20.81 dollars an hour or $832.69 per week.  Many of those don't seem to be represented on this forum.
Is there any data available that show those of the working poor, not subsided directly of indirectly by goverments making under the average wage, are member on this forum?

[cannon_fodder]

What is your income bracket?

I know my income bracket, and attest to the fact that in your world I very well may be considered among the "working poor."  Though, I hope that is a short term endeavor.  When I'm rich, I promise to smugly make sur eyou know it.

[tim huntzinger]

When viewing the posts on the Tulsa forum one assumes that the poster are made up of the elitist which gives the illusion that the common working poor are not represented.
Many of the poster hide behind false names and data.
Being the average pay in the city is now $20.81 dollars an hour or $832.69 per week.  Many of those don't seem to be represented on this forum.
Is there any data available that show those of the working poor, not subsided directly of indirectly by goverments making under the average wage, are member on this forum?

Yes, but it remains to be collected.

[TheArtist]

What year of my income would you like to count? Last year, the year before that,  or this year?  This year I will probably make less than half what I did last year lol. My income fluctuates from well below average to well above. Makes "budgeting" rather tricky.  

Am I and my opinions counted as elitist one year, then working poor the next, based on income?   

[shadows]

What is your income bracket?

I know my income bracket, and attest to the fact that in your world I very well may be considered among the "working poor."  Though, I hope that is a short term endeavor.  When I'm rich, I promise to smugly make sur eyou know it.

I started paying SS in 1938 and was to draw $160.00 a month at retirement at 65.  (At the time the teachers were signing contracts for $75,00 per month and they were required to be single)

My income comes from SS, IRA's, royalties and Stock dividends.  My parachute was sewed together by my own hands. 
I consider the working poor as those who work by the hour five days each week trying to pay their bills. Are any of them represented on this forum? They are counted in "We the people"  

[RecycleMichael]

Why is everything with you about wealth and class? What does it matter if a person on this forum is paid $8 or $80 an hour? Why do you always talk about the working poor as if they were somehow more honest in their opinions than someone who has financial success?

And finally, I get so tired with your attacks on government employees. Yes, there are some bad ones, just like in every work sector. But I know hundreds of city, county, state, and federal employees who work incredibly hard for low wages. They often have dangerous jobs and would give up a holiday with their family to deliver clean water, put out a fire, catch a criminal or even just make sure the traffic light works.

[tim huntzinger]

Why is everything with you about wealth and class? What does it matter if a person on this forum is paid $8 or $80 an hour? Why do you always talk about the working poor as if they were somehow more honest in their opinions than someone who has financial success?

And finally, I get so tired with your attacks on government employees. Yes, there are some bad ones, just like in every work sector. But I know hundreds of city, county, state, and federal employees who work incredibly hard for low wages. They often have dangerous jobs and would give up a holiday with their family to deliver clean water, put out a fire, catch a criminal or even just make sure the traffic light works.

That last part is true and public employees should be thanked and the jobs they do respected.  But the fact is the single largest employer at the national, state, country, and city level just about everywhere is the government.  Nice big fat targets first of all, and secondly there is a growing realization that these 'civil servants' are our masters, many of whom will spend more time in 'retirement' than on the job.

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of God, Michael.  And why is everything out of President Sotero's mouth about class and money?  Why is he so obsessed with making things right in America?

[waterboy]

I've had my feet in both camps. Like someone said, I've been poor and I've been rich. I prefer rich. However, the politics in these camps are pretty much the same. The wealthy seem better informed, and better able to effect their beliefs, but they come up with the same conclusions as the poorly informed, poorly educated hourly paid. The only difference is that the hourly paid often hold those convictions even though they work against their best interests.

I used to believe that education was the key to enlightenment. And it is, if you approach it with an open mind. Alas, most use education to bolster pre-existing beliefs rather than entertain any challenge to them.  Political views seem to be more regional and religious based than education and money based.

[Wilbur]

I would think your question, "Are you receiving the average pay in private industries", would be a little more specific then are you simply paid above or below the Tulsa average.

Surely, we understand the dude at McDonald's makes below the dude running the Bank of Oklahoma.

At first, I interpreted your question to be...  "are you making more then your counterpoint in private industry", to which I assumed we were comparing like jobs.

Do I make more then the flunky with no high school diploma who won't look for a job?  You bet!  Do I make more in the government sector compared to a similar job in the private sector?  No way!

[Red Arrow]

Wilbur,

You do have a retirement plan that many in the private sector would like to have. 

[Wilbur]

Wilbur,

You do have a retirement plan that many in the private sector would like to have. 

Then why do so many people fight against changing social security?

[Red Arrow]

Then why do so many people fight against changing social security?

I haven't heard anyone seriously propose to change SS to allow someone to retire after 20 years and allow them to work full time at another career (while receiving full benefits from the 1st career retirement) for another 20 to build a bigger nest egg or nicer lifestyle.

I'm not against the program but it is part of your total compensation.  I also have no problem with retired military double dippers for the same reason, generally lower salary than the private sector.  No one is saying you'll get rich doing this but you probably won't starve living in a cardboard box under a bridge either.

Things I don't know about your Civil Service retirement:

Do you actively contribute to the fund by payroll deduction?  If so, what percentage?
Are you still subject to Social Security?  If so, does the city actually deposit the "employer's share" to the fund or is that an unfunded benefit?

[shadows]

And finally, I get so tired with your attacks on government employees. Yes, there are some bad ones, just like in every work sector. But I know hundreds of city, county, state, and federal employees who work incredibly hard for low wages. They often have dangerous jobs and would give up a holiday with their family to deliver clean water, put out a fire, catch a criminal or even just make sure the traffic light works.

The public servants have establish a class of their own and it is growing.   The class is supported by the working poor who are the major contributors to the perks that they cannot obtain or offered through the private sector of employment.  In the archives of the rise and fall of nations this has been a reoccurring factor as these classes are formed.  It has become goal as of a royal family which passes on to their offspring's the advantages of becoming a public servant with its flood of unattainable perks that are available to this class.  Who do you consider the "We the people" under which was to establish the many freedoms of survival for all and not to any one class?
Do you not enjoy being one of the class. 

[Wilbur]

I haven't heard anyone seriously propose to change SS to allow someone to retire after 20 years and allow them to work full time at another career (while receiving full benefits from the 1st career retirement) for another 20 to build a bigger nest egg or nicer lifestyle.

I'm not against the program but it is part of your total compensation.  I also have no problem with retired military double dippers for the same reason, generally lower salary than the private sector.  No one is saying you'll get rich doing this but you probably won't starve living in a cardboard box under a bridge either.

Things I don't know about your Civil Service retirement:

Do you actively contribute to the fund by payroll deduction?  If so, what percentage?
Are you still subject to Social Security?  If so, does the city actually deposit the "employer's share" to the fund or is that an unfunded benefit?

Police officers contribute to the pension system at an 8% rate, slightly higher then the social security rate.  Their employers pay into the pension system at a rate slightly higher then social security as well, but I'm not positive of the rate.

Retirement pay is based on years of service, with the minimum amount of service being 20 years and the maximum being 30 (for determining benefits - you can stay longer, but your benefits do not increase).

No, I do not pay into social security, nor, will I draw any benefits.  I guess those contributions I made as a teenager are just that, free contributions.  Everyone is welcome!

Because I am a pension employee, my wife, who does pay into social security, is penalized and will only be allowed to draw up to a maximum of 50% of HER benefits (could be as low as zero), even though she has been paying at the same rate as everyone else.  Because her spouse is a pension employee, she is penalized.  Go figure that one out.

A police officer's average life expectancy is 58-years.  The average police officer lives 5-years after retirement.  Not sure how that other 20-year job plays into those figures.  That's probably a good reason most police pension systems are always so fiscally sound.

I find it a little strange you say it's okay for someone in the military to retire and go work someplace else, but other government employees (working for the same 'employer') can't.  Many military people make more then other government employees.  Their housing and many other essentials are paid for, yet....  Weird.

And, what prevents a fiscally sound person to retire early from their private sector job, draw from their own retirement funds and going out and starting a new job?  Not a darn thing.  But that is okay?

[Wilbur]

The public servants have establish a class of their own and it is growing.   The class is supported by the working poor who are the major contributors to the perks that they cannot obtain or offered through the private sector of employment.

Please list these perks.

In the archives of the rise and fall of nations this has been a reoccurring factor as these classes are formed.  It has become goal as of a royal family which passes on to their offspring's the advantages of becoming a public servant with its flood of unattainable perks that are available to this class.

Please provide a list of the 'flood of unattainable perks".  Many of us would be curious.