USL-1 or NASL Professional Soccer at the old ballpark

[USRufnex]

Sorry CF, but I figured your questions about using the ballpark for soccer deserved its own thread.
Don't want to dominate the other thread.....

Rufnex:

My main concern with turning the stadium into a soccer stadium is that it would be fairly screwball.  You have posted pictures of the Puerto Rico stadium like that and it looks like crap.  Clearly they converted an old baseball stadium to make an old baseball stadium where you can play soccer.

The Tulsa stadium is built like a giant K'nex set.  I wonder how easy it would be to deconstruct the current configuration and rebuild it into a soccer stadium.  I'm sure there would be some minimal expense, but I would imagine the field would fit better, the fan experience would be better, and it would look the part while being able to utilize most of the materials and the current concession, bathroom facilities and gates.  With a nice looking large soccer stadium I'm sure we could accommodate a USL-1 team as well as trying to make a bigger deal of TU-OU, OU-OSU, and other in-state soccer matches.  

Hell, if the infield of the horse track was ever made to look like a decent horse track and grass placed in the middle there it could be used as a damn nice soccer complex in mid town (dare we try to host a regional soccer tournament?).  I know, I know . . . we'd have to give up surface parking.  But it would make the track look MUCH more respectable (a paved infield?  Really?) and provide a space for kids to play soccer while simultaneously creating a new venue for the city to host functions.  There is no green space as expo square . . .

So I'm on board Rufnex.  Reconfigure the stadium to a soccer stadium and grass the infield.  Expo square would gain a nicer looking race track, green space at expo, a new soccer complex, a soccer stadium, and the possibility of hosting more events.

That's my plan.  Go.

[USRufnex]

I agree with you, that turning Driller Park into a soccer stadium would be "fairly screwball."

But I'd like to start off by pointing out that when civic projects don't happen and other proposals fall by the wayside...... you have to pay the consequences when they fail.

I believe Tulsa would have been chosen for a league-owned team in the original Major League Soccer for 1996 had TU chipped in for a grass field at Skelly ($1mil).  Heck, that could eventually have evolved into the downsized Chapman Stadium we see today-- only differences would have been a grass field, wider sidelines for MLS, and it could have turned out alot like Houston's Robertson Stadium, home of Houston's MLS team....

In the mid-90s, the proposed Tulsa Project included a 5,000 seat soccer/track&field stadium, part of mayor Susan Savage's effort to put the city in a position to host several amateur athletics events (remember the natatorium?).  At the time, John Klein at the Tulsa World told us it was only a matter of time before MLS would come to Tulsa, and that was one of the reasons citizens were supposed to vote for it..... never mind the fact that a 5k-capacity stadium would have needed to be expanded to 20k before MLS would have considered a team here.......

I do believe, however, if that stadium were built, Tulsa would have had an A-League team (equivalent of USL-1).  The Tulsa Project went down to defeat... instead, we got the Tulsa Roughnecks D-3 team in 1997 (equivalent of USL-2)... the team tried playing at four different high school stadiums before biting the dust after the 1999 season.

In 1999, a 5,100-seat "soccer specific stadium" was built, the first of its kind.... not in Tulsa, but in Charleston, SC... http://www.charlestonbattery.com/stadium_overview.asp

In the mid-90s, Rochester, NY took a different path.  They built a new baseball stadium that took into consideration the needs of pro soccer, with angles not as sharp as traditional ballparks.... http://www.ballparkreviews.com/roch/frontier.htm

Frontier Field was used for A-league/USL-1 soccer from 1996 - 2005...
Per Game Attendance: 
1996        A-League                   9,991
1997        USISL A-League       10,677
1998     USISL A-League        11,499
1999        USL A-League        11,551
2000        USL A-League        11,600
2001        USL A-League        10,789
2002        USL A-League        10,008
2003        USL A-League        10,169
2004        USL A-League        10,200
2005        USL First Division       9,791
***Scheduling and setup problems with the AAA-baseball club persisted from early on, and because of such high attendance at a ballpark, Rochester tried for an MLS team by proposing its own stadium... it was built in 2006 at a cost of $35mil, capacity 13,768.

By 2002, Lamar Hunt, owner of the Kansas City Chiefs and MLS's KC and Columbus teams, still had faith that Tulsa could get it done, and took city officials (incl LaFortune, Bill Christensen, etc, etc...) to games at Columbus's new soccer stadium and KC's inappropriate NFL venue at Arrowhead.
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4363

In the summer of 2003, the MLS venue was dropped from Vision2025.  I figure the city likely came to the conclusion that the soccer stadium could have been used as a "lightening rod" by the political opposition.  So, in late 2005, a TIF project was being proposed that would bring a team here....http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6682946&postcount=1

It failed, and when the East End project was amended on a smaller scale to include a new ballpark for the Drillers, Mayor Taylor was elected and she systematically ignored the project (according to Tim Kissler), allowing Global Development Partners and Walmart to fight it out.... guess what's there now?  Nothing.

In the fall of 2007, the River Tax was defeated.  So, any hope of a Tulsa Landing project on the west bank has been shelved, at least for the foreseeable future.

ONEOK Park will not host a pro soccer team, despite their little soccer drawing when it was first proposed.......

I know you probably know most of what I've posted, CF.  Just a reminder that our decisions have consequences.

[USRufnex]

This is KC's setup for Major League Soccer until they can get a new stadium funded/built in the KC area.... their plans for the old Bannister Mall seem to have imploded...
Hard to say where this will end up.....

9/8/09 Kansas City Wizards stadium update from Robb Heineman, OnGoal LLC...
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1164568



I would hope Driller Park could be modified in such a way, that the stands wouldn't be so far from the field..... CF, your ideas about taking the infield of the horsetrack and turning it into fields for regional soccer tournaments is something I've been told could be pretty lucrative, if proposed.

[cannon_fodder]

CF, your ideas about taking the infield of the horse track and turning it into fields for regional soccer tournaments is something I've been told could be pretty lucrative, if proposed.

Well damnit, I'm proposing it!

Also, do you have any information or has anyone looking into the possibility of deconstructing the existing stadium infrastructure and rebuilding it into a different configuration?  I seriously don't think it would be that hard.  Essentially maintain the two sideline grandstands but position them on opposite sides of the field.  The entire thing is a K'nex set.

I'm not NEARLY as devoted to soccer as you, but your soccer suggestion is the best I have heard.  If we could couple the rebuilt main stadium with soccer fields in the race track infield we'd not only have the potential to attract an MSL franchise, but a better looking race track AND another potential economic engine at Expo.  Not only for soccer, but you could hold grass-based equestrian events on the infield then also.

A win for soccer fans at the pro and club levels.

A win for expo for having more assets..

And a win for the horse track in terms of aesthetics. 

The only loss is the parking provided in the infield.  But surely the "not just a parking lot" parking lot formerly known as Bell's more than compensates for the loss on the 10 days a year that it is needed.

[PonderInc]

I, too, have heard that the stadium is basically a big lego set.  If it's possible to take it apart and reconfigure it for soccer, that would be ideal. 

Heck, what if the former Bell's site was converted into several additional soccer fields, so that you could host regional youth and adult soccer tournaments throughout the year.  (Rather than a parking lot that's used once a year for the fair.)

[USRufnex]

Well, I guess it all comes down to "cost vs. benefit" ....

Is the county just looking for a good 2-3 years to use pro soccer as political cover before they do what they want to do anyway?  Bulldoze the ballpark?

And how many years does the ballpark have left?  It's almost 30 years old..... 5-10 years?..... 10-15 years?  The old Tulsa Oiler ballpark lasted from 1934-1976.  To be fair, the expanded stands of Driller Park are only 20 years old...

Let's not forget the Kathy Taylor-induced entity:  Cameron Box Sports.  They might not welcome pro soccer as another option to possibly compete for the sponsor dollars already promised to bankroll their 2010 AFL/WNBA teams...

So, how much would it cost to move around the current "lego set" or "k'nex set?"  $1mil?  $3mil?  Who would pay and why?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20090912_16_A1_Drille175649

Expo Square tenants
The Tulsa Drillers were one of six organizations that call Expo Square their full-time home.

Here is a list of those tenants and the terms of their agreements with Expo Square.

Tulsa Drillers: The baseball team paid Expo Square $18,000 a year and a percentage of concessions.
In 2008, that amounted to $84,834.

Tulsa County Health Center: The center pays Expo Square for the gas and electricity it uses to operate the building.

Tulsa Flea Market: The flea market pays the fairgrounds 60 percent of gross revenue from booth sales. It also pays $210 per event day if the fairgrounds staff provides clean-up. Last year, the flea market paid the fairgrounds $93,843.

Big Splash Water Park: The water park pays the fairgrounds a percentage of gross admission revenue based on a sliding scale ranging from 10 percent to 30 percent.

The park's minimum annual percentage rental fee is $125,000. Last year, the park paid the fairgrounds $130,736.

Fair Meadows Simulcast Facility: For many years, the Tulsa County Public Facilities Authority, which oversees operation of the fairgrounds, did not own the building.

That changed last year, leaving the authority to receive all of the money the racetrack raises from its live racing, its simulcast wagering and its sports grill. Last year, that amounted to $1.7 million.

Inn at Expo Square: The hotel pays rent equal to the greater of $42,000 or 5 percent of gross room revenue; and 5 percent of gross room revenue. Last year, that amounted to $100,726.

Source: Expo Square

[waterboy]

FWIW, the old Drillers Stadium used from 1934 to 1976 was of wood construction. They only replaced it because it collapsed during use. Even so it took a private donation to make it happen. This aluminum, steel and concrete stadium could last a lot longer than the 35 years the old one did.

I agree with you that unless there is a strong committment to a pro soccer option, don't bother. I didn't see anything on the list of possible uses that really excites me.

[RecycleMichael]

Soccer is becoming more popular in Tulsa. Their are teams on hundreds of fields playing or practicing every day and night of the week.

It is also becoming very popular in this part of the country. Look at this new $36 million soccer complex that just opened in Overland Park (KC), Kansas. It includes 1.2 million square feet of synthetic turf.
http://www.opkansas.org/_Res/Parks_and_Recreation/Soccer/index.cfm

[USRufnex]

FWIW, RM, those Overland Park youth fields were originally going to be combined with a soccer stadium for MLS, but the taxpayers balked at the extra $$$ ($75mil instead of $36) for the stadium+fields........ a year later, the owners of the Wizards looked at another location at the old Banister Mall in KC, MO and needed a "Super TIF" to do it..... now, OnGoal LLC / Cerner Group are talking to Kansas politicians about a jobs/stadium/youth fields project for KCK at a cost of $230mil in state and local "incentives".........

(Oct, 2006) Proposed Soccer Fields and Wizards' Stadium Complex
Location: 159th and 69 Highway, Overland Park, KS
http://www.nbrhd.net/topics/SoccerOverview0609.htm

(Dec, 2007) Wizards' ambitious stadium plan passes
Location:  Banister Mall, Kansas City, MO
http://kc.wizards.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20071213&content_id=133007&vkey=news_kcw&fext=.jsp&team=t105


(Oct, 2009) Kansas governor says critics too generous on job deal
Location:  Wyandotte, KS, near the Kansas Speedway in KCK.
http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2009/10/12/daily40.html

---Read about the costs involved.  This is the kinda funding that would make even former mayor LaFortune blush.... I mean, we're getting WNBA at a fraction of the cost of MLS.... and USL-1 at the fairgrounds would and should be a fraction of the cost of the WNBA.

[USRufnex]

Team Owners Association Announce Move to Go Forward with New League
2009 November 10

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/11/10/team-owners-association-announce-move-to-go-forward-with-new-league/

Nov. 10, 2009 – The owners of the Atlanta Silverbacks, Carolina RailHawks, Miami FC, Minnesota Thunder, Montreal Impact and Vancouver Whitecaps, formerly of USL-1, together with St. Louis Soccer United today announced that they have formed a new professional soccer league to play in the United States and Canada beginning in April 2010.

Q&A: Jeff Cooper Discusses Plans for Professional Soccer Team
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2009/11/q_and_a_jeff_cooper_discusses_plans_for_professional_soccer_team_st_louis.php

[TulsaRufnex]

NASL coming to Northern Virginia
Posted by Steven Goff on November 5, 2012
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2012/11/05/nasl-coming-to-northern-virginia/

"The growth of the county, the demographics of the county, the affluence of the county, it will sustain itself," said Bob Farren, chairman and founder of VIP Sports & Entertainment, which led the bid. "If anyone comes to Loudoun County from elsewhere in the area to support our team, it's a bonus because everything works within this region itself."

Farren's ownership group, Loudoun Professional Soccer LLC, has a deal to play in a stadium that will be constructed in Ashburn, nine miles north of Dulles Airport and 30 miles west of Washington. Once details are finalized, the project would take less than a year to complete, he said.

The venue will have 5,500 permanent seats and accommodate about 10,000 spectators. The playing surface is artificial turf.

The soccer team will share the stadium with the Loudoun Hounds, a minor league baseball team owned by VIP. Farren hopes to also attract small-scale international soccer matches as well as college and youth events.

http://www.loudounhounds.com/thedogyard

One Loudoun is Loudoun County's new downtown. It will be a thoroughly amenitized environment designed to be comfortable, walkable and ultimately livable for all Loudoun residents.

[guido911]

NASL coming to Northern Virginia
Posted by Steven Goff on November 5, 2012
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2012/11/05/nasl-coming-to-northern-virginia/

http://www.loudounhounds.com/thedogyard

So? You moving there or something?

[TulsaRufnex]

So? You moving there or something?

Nope.  And I'm not moving to Minnesota either....

With owner for Stars set, questions emerge about MLS
Article by: MIKE KASZUBA , Star Tribune
    Updated: November 9, 2012 - 7:02 AM
William McGuire's decision to buy the NASL franchise clashes with the Vikings' new ties to Major League Soccer.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/177992421.html?refer=y

William McGuire's sudden emergence on the professional soccer stage in the Twin Cities left one big unanswered question: How will his presence help or hinder the Vikings owners' attempt to land a Major League Soccer team in their new stadium?

McGuire, former head of the UnitedHealth Group and one of Minnesota's richest private executives, was introduced Thursday as the new owner of the Minnesota Stars FC, the financially troubled North American Soccer League team.

He immediately brought an up-tempo presence to the team, saying that he wanted to average 10,000 fans next year -- the Stars average fewer than 3,000 fans now -- and had even explored the possibility of the team playing at the University of Minnesota's TCF Bank Stadium.

"It's difficult for me not to be involved, if I'm involved," McGuire told a large crowd at a downtown Minneapolis bar.

[Red Arrow]

And I'm not moving to Minnesota either....

Darn the bad luck!

[TulsaRufnex]

Darn the bad luck!

Whatever.