New sports bar downtown

[FOTD]

 I agree, a movie theater downtown, not stuck out by itself somewhere but in one of the budding entertainment districts, would be great. That lot opposite Joe Mommas or in that area would be my first pick.

 Also, glad to hear there is a Bowling Alley going in.  

Since the devil's name is being used in vein it's time to thread up.

Ted Sack owns that old historic Santa Fe train station. Ted has been behind the scenes for many developments over the years acting as intermediary between the developer and the city. He has created lots of pull and has a rather incestuous relationship with public diswerks. He aims to make big bucks on his holdings between Joe Momma's and McNellies. Included in his dream is the old Franklin Building to the east....

FOTD thought the arena was your nucleus for downtown development. That didn't work? All those millions thrown after that project didn't make your dreams come true? Maybe Mayor La La should have spent less on that Chamber wish and instead spread the money through out the Brady (like Beale Street, Austin, etc) and Blue Dome.  Well, let's get our crayons out and add a movie theater. Only issue is who is coming there instead of their own area of town. The demographics speak for themselves and no theater company will build (or lease) with such thin demographics.

Steps to revitalize downtown:

Better schools than anywhere else in town/region
More residences
More office users
Liquor in grocery stores
The melting of the ice caps and mass migration from coastal communities to quality cities like Tulsa

[Red Arrow]

Since the devil's name is being used in vein it's time to thread up.

It's good to hear you speak up for a change. 

[JoeMommaBlake]

How does AMC (with a competing theater across the street) have a better demographic make-up around it than downtown? Even if you're simply referring to numbers (it would be tough to compete with 40,000 downtown workers, convention visitors, people that live downtown, N. Tulsa, Skiatook, Sand Springs, West Tulsa, Midtown, etc.). Furthermore, you know as well as I do that midtowners are territorial and would much rather support a downtown theater than one at 41st and Yale. It would do just fine. It would do better than fine. You really think people that live in midtown just couldn't be drawn away from Southroads to go downtown to watch a movie? You don't think people would rather make a night of eating downtown and catching a show than eating at any of the chains at 41st and Yale? If we can't compete with On the Border, El Chico, Subway, Quizno's, and Coney Islander then downtown is screwed.

I think it's funny that while the BOK, PAC, and Cains are some of the most successful venues of their kind, you would suggest that people will venture downtown for concerts, events, musicals, plays, sports, festivals, etc., but not to watch a movie. If a cinema company can't look at that (and the easy access from all over the area) and discern that a multiplex would work, especially in a town known for keeping them busy, they don't deserve the business. On top of that, a well designed retro redo of an old downtown theater with red curtains that open, a better food and drink menu, and comfortable seating would be a unique draw for the entire area.

I wasn't suggesting that a movie theater is the magic trick. My point was that it was the more predictable, cost effective, profitable way to get people downtown -  more than the ballpark or arena. Almost sounds like something you would say, now that I think about it.

Sack may own that building, but he doesn't own that big lot. It's a beautiful building and can be incorporated nicely into any future development of that overall block, a block that can be an important piece of Elgin's development. I may be biased, but I still think Elgin will someday be the best street in town. It would be even better with a theater on or around it. The work the city and big money donors are doing with the ballpark and the arena are important. They are building the hubs. Now the smaller developers and entrepreneurs have to step up and fill in the blanks. Would it have been better if private donors had paid for all of the development entirely? Yes, I think so, but if we wait for people to do that, we'll continue to stay behind.

[Conan71]

How does AMC (with a competing theater across the street) have a better demographic make-up around it than downtown? Even if you're simply referring to numbers (it would be tough to compete with 40,000 downtown workers, convention visitors, people that live downtown, N. Tulsa, Skiatook, Sand Springs, West Tulsa, Midtown, etc.). Furthermore, you know as well as I do that midtowners are territorial and would much rather support a downtown theater than one at 41st and Yale. It would do just fine. It would do better than fine. You really think people that live in midtown just couldn't be drawn away from Southroads to go downtown to watch a movie? You don't think people would rather make a night of eating downtown and catching a show than eating at any of the chains at 41st and Yale? If we can't compete with On the Border, El Chico, Subway, Quizno's, and Coney Islander then downtown is screwed.

I think it's funny that while the BOK, PAC, and Cains are some of the most successful venues of their kind, you would suggest that people will venture downtown for concerts, events, musicals, plays, sports, festivals, etc., but not to watch a movie. If a cinema company can't look at that (and the easy access from all over the area) and discern that a multiplex would work, especially in a town known for keeping them busy, they don't deserve the business. On top of that, a well designed retro redo of an old downtown theater with red curtains that open, a better food and drink menu, and comfortable seating would be a unique draw for the entire area.

I wasn't suggesting that a movie theater is the magic trick. My point was that it was the more predictable, cost effective, profitable way to get people downtown -  more than the ballpark or arena. Almost sounds like something you would say, now that I think about it.

Sack may own that building, but he doesn't own that big lot. It's a beautiful building and can be incorporated nicely into any future development of that overall block, a block that can be an important piece of Elgin's development. I may be biased, but I still think Elgin will someday be the best street in town. It would be even better with a theater on or around it. The work the city and big money donors are doing with the ballpark and the arena are important. They are building the hubs. Now the smaller developers and entrepreneurs have to step up and fill in the blanks. Would it have been better if private donors had paid for all of the development entirely? Yes, I think so, but if we wait for people to do that, we'll continue to stay behind.

Keep in mind mid-town teens account for a fair amount of the traffic at either one of the theaters at 41st & Yale.  Can you convince their parents to drop them off in the middle of Downtown.  Per one of the other recent threads, we have no parking in Downtown, high crime, and cops over zealously writing parking tickets (/snark).

Honestly, I think a theater could work in Downtown so long as there's plenty of on-site parking and you can keep the wrong elements from loitering outside the theater. 

Hey, I'm a fan of Downtown and I applaud you for taking a risk, doing such a nice build-out on Joe Momma's, and further re-investing in the area.  All we need is a few more Blake Ewings in the area...(and maybe a Trump to build the theater). 

[cannon_fodder]

For the theater:  I think a normal mutliplex would do OK business. But I think it would be highly successful if it was something unique.   That could be a throw back theater with red curtains and some faux flair, or a theater that serves alcohol and caters to adults (not that kind of adult theater, sicko).   They exist in the urban areas of many other cities . . . maybe Tulsa could be part of the pack instead of trailing behind it.

[TheTed]

Keep in mind mid-town teens account for a fair amount of the traffic at either one of the theaters at 41st & Yale.  Can you convince their parents to drop them off in the middle of Downtown.  Per one of the other recent threads, we have no parking in Downtown, high crime, and cops over zealously writing parking tickets (/snark).

For most of those kids who are hanging out at the AMC, overbearing parents are not a concern. And it sure would make moviegoing enjoyable for the rest of us if they weren't there. One Saturday night I had to wade through hundreds of them loitering out front just to get inside. Several confrontations looked close to turning into fights. A lone rent-a-cop was trying to get them to stop loitering. As you can imagine, he wasn't getting very far.

Then inside the theater, various male-female couples of teens would enter the theater and leave 10 minutes later. Followed two minutes later by a rent-a-cop shining his flashlight around the theater.

I've heard the new downtown KC theather is great, what with its restaurant food and bar service.

[Townsend]

I've heard the new downtown KC theather is great, what with its restaurant food and bar service.

I don't think we're allowed to do that in Oklahoma due to liquor laws.

[Conan71]

I don't think we're allowed to do that in Oklahoma due to liquor laws.

"All right. Well, you can walk into a movie theater in Amsterdam and buy a beer. And I don't mean just like in no paper cup, I'm talking about a glass of beer."

[joiei]

For the theater:  I think a normal mutliplex would do OK business. But I think it would be highly successful if it was something unique.   That could be a throw back theater with red curtains and some faux flair, or a theater that serves alcohol and caters to adults (not that kind of adult theater, sicko).   They exist in the urban areas of many other cities . . . maybe Tulsa could be part of the pack instead of trailing behind it.

The AMC theater in Sundown Square in downtown Ft Worth seems to do pretty good.  I have been there several times to see movies when I was down visiting friends.  And they didn't serve adult beverages.

[SXSW]

I don't think we're allowed to do that in Oklahoma due to liquor laws.

The Warren Theater in Moore serves beer and liquor in the theater.  You pay extra for a balcony seat where they serve food and drinks.  A Warren in downtown would be a huge draw.  Build it with the main entrance facing Elgin at 2nd St. with all parking to the east.  A public garage would be a good investment there that would serve all of Blue Dome allowing some of the other surface lots to be developed.

[Townsend]

The Warren Theater in Moore serves beer and liquor in the theater.  You pay extra for a balcony seat where they serve food and drinks.  A Warren in downtown would be a huge draw.  Build it with the main entrance facing Elgin at 2nd St. with all parking to the east.  A public garage would be a good investment there that would serve all of Blue Dome allowing some of the other surface lots to be developed.

Then I hope I am misremembering.  I'd love a booze theater.  My friends in Dallas were regaling me about theirs.

[kylieosu]

The Warren Theater in Moore serves beer and liquor in the theater.  You pay extra for a balcony seat where they serve food and drinks.  A Warren in downtown would be a huge draw.  Build it with the main entrance facing Elgin at 2nd St. with all parking to the east.  A public garage would be a good investment there that would serve all of Blue Dome allowing some of the other surface lots to be developed.

I just went there on Sunday. It was awesome. Something like that would do GREAT in downtown, I have no doubt.

[JoeMommaBlake]

I'm all for a smaller "booze and real food" theater. If nobody beats me to it, it's on  my list to do one of these days. It's a little more complicated than a restaurant. There aren't that many existing buildings that can accommodate the space requirements (even for a twin), so new construction will likely be necessary. The cost is in the millions, not the thousands. That's a big group of investors...or one really wealthy one.

I would love a throwback theater with the movie announcer, the grand lobby, the rounded ticket booth, the big marquee, etc. I think it would be incredible and that the draw would be tremendous. Someday, maybe.

In regards to teens coming downtown. I understand the sentiment and agree that it's out there. There are definitely people in Tulsa who have a misguided opinion about downtown safety. On a given night, however, a line of teens a mile long can be seen in front of the Cains Ballroom or the Marquee. My family (parents and younger siblings) is a south Tulsa, Union attending family. My brother (16 yrs old) and his friends regularly attend shows at the Cains and the Marquee. It may not be every parent in town that lets their kids run around downtown, but I'd guess it's more than we might think.

With more life downtown, people will be put more at ease. After a few trips downtown to Drillers games or BOK events, people will start to feel safer and old stereotypes will go away. This will be good news for all of us who are trying to make a living down there.

Conan, thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate that.

I like conversations like these where we dream out loud a bit. I think it helps people to envision what our city can become and things like movie theaters are a big part of our city's entertainment landscape. People define a city by their entertainment options and their buildings. Think of the city's you've visited. Your opinion of them is likely based on what they have to do there and what their downtown looks like. I know mine is. Memphis has all kinds of issues, but I love it and I enjoy visiting largely because it has wonderful restaurants and entertainment options and a unique downtown area. I couldn't tell you what their streets are like. I don't remember. I didn't care. I cared about where I was going to eat and what music I was going to listen to and what hotel I was staying in downtown. Part of our problem(?) here in Tulsa is that so many Tulsans are very happy with Tulsa. All they want is a city that feels like a suburb with chain restaurants, wide streets, and big malls. They don't care about the things that make us unique. They don't go to DFest or Tulsa Tough, or to shows at the Cains or to Riverside Park. They go to work then go home and watch CSI Pheonix. That's okay and I'm not begrudging them that, but that overwhelming level of contentment held by so much of our city, keeps us from being a notable place. Somehow the smaller group of us that have bigger dreams for Tulsa have to do the work of creating something noteworthy and maybe also convincing others that we can do even better. Tulsa is great as it is today. It really is a wonderful place to live and to raise a family. If we want it to stay that way, we need to think ahead about the needs of a new generation. I really get excited reading the forum sometimes because it reminds me that there is a large group of people with common objectives. Even FOTD wants Tulsa to be a better place. =)

[jne]

How does AMC (with a competing theater across the street) have a better demographic make-up around it than downtown? Even if you're simply referring to numbers (it would be tough to compete with 40,000 downtown workers, convention visitors, people that live downtown, N. Tulsa, Skiatook, Sand Springs, West Tulsa, Midtown, etc.). Furthermore, you know as well as I do that midtowners are territorial and would much rather support a downtown theater than one at 41st and Yale. It would do just fine. It would do better than fine. You really think people that live in midtown just couldn't be drawn away from Southroads to go downtown to watch a movie? You don't think people would rather make a night of eating downtown and catching a show than eating at any of the chains at 41st and Yale? If we can't compete with On the Border, El Chico, Subway, Quizno's, and Coney Islander then downtown is screwed.

I think it's funny that while the BOK, PAC, and Cains are some of the most successful venues of their kind, you would suggest that people will venture downtown for concerts, events, musicals, plays, sports, festivals, etc., but not to watch a movie. If a cinema company can't look at that (and the easy access from all over the area) and discern that a multiplex would work, especially in a town known for keeping them busy, they don't deserve the business. On top of that, a well designed retro redo of an old downtown theater with red curtains that open, a better food and drink menu, and comfortable seating would be a unique draw for the entire area.

I wasn't suggesting that a movie theater is the magic trick. My point was that it was the more predictable, cost effective, profitable way to get people downtown -  more than the ballpark or arena. Almost sounds like something you would say, now that I think about it.

Totally agree, and I live at 41st and Harvard. If there were a theater downtown, that is where we would go and so would the other couples we go out with that live in the area.  We'd love the added option of something to make a night of headed downtown and we'd rather give our money to a locally run place with a more unique experience.  A good unique downtown theater would not only bring us downtown more often, but would be an attraction for visitors.

[hello]

Keep in mind mid-town teens account for a fair amount of the traffic at either one of the theaters at 41st & Yale.  Can you convince their parents to drop them off in the middle of Downtown.  Per one of the other recent threads, we have no parking in Downtown, high crime, and cops over zealously writing parking tickets

Personally, I feel more safe Downtown than at 41st and Yale. Plus the bonus of fewer teens? Excellent.