Finally the GOP is starting to make headway into protecting marriage.

[Conan71]

I hardly think the Civil Rights Act was expedient. There was a lot of heavy lifting and arm-twisting to get that one through, and he knew there would be long-term political fallout for the Democrats. Expediency hardly comes to mind with that law.

As for the GOP not supporting minorities, they actively oppose gay marriage, for one thing. Also, they weren't happy about the repeal of sodomy laws, which targeted the homosexual community.

You apparently have not read much about LBJ's record on CR laws during his HOR and Senate careers. 

[PonderInc]

Well, as long as we're "protecting" marriage, we better get busy and outlaw Facebook.

Yep, it's now easier than ever to hook up with that old lost love from high school.  Online social networking sites like Facebook do, apparantly, make it easier to find that special someone from the past... making them a gateway to (gasp!) affairs and d-i-v-o-r-c-e.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sticky-bonds/200909/extramarital-affairs-in-the-new-millennium

[RecycleMichael]

Just because PonderInc is my tallest girlfriend don't mean I don't love my shortest wife.

[waterboy]

Since when does one race endorsing a policy (or party) make it right?  I've never considered which politician or which party would be best for my race.  Never come into the equation.  That fact that it does primarily for members of certain races (which is a euphemism for black people) seems to indicate the racial issues are primarily located therein.  Politicians focused on political gain for black people are OK:  Jackson, Sharpton, etc.  Religious leaders with an emphasis on being black are fine too.

But oddly (and rightfully) enough, similar groups concentrated on "the white man" are universally deemed idiots.  They are seen for what they are:  racists.  Advocating for special treatment for one race above another.  Racism/homophobia or other prejudices based on perceived differences will always exist, but luckily out culture has decided that this should be unacceptable and ostracized them to the fringes.   But for some reason you can still play the race card so long as your grandfather couldn't.  

Has anyone asked what Obama has done for white people?  Of course not, but that was a fair question to ask of GW.

Has anyone asked what XY or Z did to help the poor inner city white people?  Nope, if we focus on one race it will be "minorities" (generally a euphemism for black people again).  

Do any colleges get special treatment for being overly white?  Special job incentives?  Scholarships?  Grants?  Bidding incentives for government contracts?  Preference in application processes?    Institutionally it's still sanctioned as OK to grant privileges or advantages to certain people based on the color of their skin.  Not because a disproportional number of minorities live in poverty (in which case set the criteria as poverty) or because the system does not allow certain people to succeed (see: black president):  but because of a terrible history we can't move past.  

I've never understood the hangup with being a particular race or sexual orientation.  I understand how it effects ones personality and other factors - but "being white" or "acting straight" are not among things I consider.  Neither is lobbying for legislation to benefit my race above others or to be a leader of my race, or anything else.

A persons a person.  Rights are rights.  Black, white, gay, straight.  The hangup on these details when we are talking about legal rights seems absurd in this day and age.  

/tangent

Substitute "Native American" into your arguments and see if they still hold water. Your views are admirable, and I'm happy you're a well adjusted, self-respecting individual, but your comments lack the insights gained from a lifetime of minority status and discrimination that they have under their belts. Status as poor or rich are not the same. Either of those can be transcended. But, if you are the 6'5" black man walking into a public place with sunglasses and a hoodie, watch as the crowd reacts. Anywhere. Whitey doesn't get that. It comes from a lifetime of television news and popular media. It may, or may not, be deserved, but there it is.

[custosnox]

Substitute "Native American" into your arguments and see if they still hold water. Your views are admirable, and I'm happy you're a well adjusted, self-respecting individual, but your comments lack the insights gained from a lifetime of minority status and discrimination that they have under their belts. Status as poor or rich are not the same. Either of those can be transcended. But, if you are the 6'5" black man walking into a public place with sunglasses and a hoodie, watch as the crowd reacts. Anywhere. Whitey doesn't get that. It comes from a lifetime of television news and popular media. It may, or may not, be deserved, but there it is.

That is one of the biggest load of crocks I've ever seen.  To begin with, the Native Americans are, as I have experianced, more racist, in general, then any other race.  At least the Cherokees.   I can't say much as to the status on this as far as the other groups, but it seems that the smaller tribes act less in this regards then other, in my experiance.  And as far as a 6'5" guy walking in with a hoodie (assuming the hood is up) and sunglasses on, your going to get pretty much the same reaction across the board.  You can try and say that you won't, but you will.

[Red Arrow]

That doesn't count, those people would all be Democrats today. 

And a large part of Oklahoma "Yellow Dog Democrats" would be Republicans on the east or west coasts.

[waterboy]

That is one of the biggest load of crocks I've ever seen.  To begin with, the Native Americans are, as I have experianced, more racist, in general, then any other race.  At least the Cherokees.   I can't say much as to the status on this as far as the other groups, but it seems that the smaller tribes act less in this regards then other, in my experiance.  And as far as a 6'5" guy walking in with a hoodie (assuming the hood is up) and sunglasses on, your going to get pretty much the same reaction across the board.  You can try and say that you won't, but you will.

That's what I find infuriating about this forum, or any forum for that matter. People speak, blurt, without much thought.

I agree with you. My point was that Native Americans are by practice, quite racist. They get that from a lifetime of resentment that they weren't able to unite and protect their land and culture from the invading Europeans. The activists among them will never give up their racism and instead embrace it as justifiable. So do many blacks. If he had substituted their race in his remarks, it would indeed have been a crock.

And as far as your last remark? I'm not trying to say it, I am saying it. You won't. One of my African American co-workers told me today that even he feels threatened when someone of that description walks into the store. He feels bemused by it because he knows it comes from the same place we all get it, popular media.

Were those guys who kicked in your door black?

edit: responded too quickly I guess or my 101 temp is messing with me...

[Conan71]

And a large part of Oklahoma "Yellow Dog Democrats" would be Republicans on the east or west coasts.

You do realize my tongue was planted firmly in my cheek when I said that, right?  That's an old mantra that's been spewed on here for a long time by some of the more ardent libs, it's usually accompanied by something about Willie Horton too.

[Red Arrow]

You do realize my tongue was planted firmly in my cheek when I said that, right?  That's an old mantra that's been spewed on here for a long time by some of the more ardent libs, it's usually accompanied by something about Willie Horton too.

Yep.  I just wanted to remind some of the folks here that think they are left wing that elsewhere in this country they would not.  Local elections here frequently go to the D orientation due to historic party loyalty.  "My great great grand daddy was a D, ..... my daddy was a D and so am I". (Applies to unions too.)  When it comes to the National level, Oklahoma becomes a Red state because the rest of the country has fallen off the edge of the world in the Pacific.

[cannon_fodder]

Waterboy, Custosnox:

I agree.  A portion of the Native American tribal members share racist traits as well as race based benefits. However, on a national stage their voice is not nearly as loud as the African American caucus.  Two additional notions distinguish Native Americans from African Americans:  1) most card carrying Native American could check the "white" box on a census form and no one would know the difference.  The distinction is more one of "blood lines" than of actual race.  In fact, a person looking the part and having the genetic markers indicating a high degree of native blood will be denied benefits while a blue eyed blond haired person who can prove 1/16th will receive them.  The idea of an "Indian" having "red" skin, long black hair, or otherwise being racially distinguishable is generally false.  And 2) Native Americans enjoy a "sovereign" status and treaty rights with the U.S. government which complicates the matter. 

Hence, to avoid more complexity I choose to ignore the sub-issue of other races and greatly generalized the matter.  But I readily admit the problem is not limited to African Americans.  There are white people obsessed with race.  Native Americans motivated by race ("Got Sovereignty?"), Hispanics who still insist they should own Texas/NM/etc., and probably a group of Asians who are still pissed they got lied to and paid next to nothing to build the railroads. I was merely pointing out the most obvious as an example.

[waterboy]

Dang, you're good. I've noticed that a lot of racism and discrimination falls into the background during better economic times.

[custosnox]

That's what I find infuriating about this forum, or any forum for that matter. People speak, blurt, without much thought.

I agree with you. My point was that Native Americans are by practice, quite racist. They get that from a lifetime of resentment that they weren't able to unite and protect their land and culture from the invading Europeans. The activists among them will never give up their racism and instead embrace it as justifiable. So do many blacks. If he had substituted their race in his remarks, it would indeed have been a crock.

And as far as your last remark? I'm not trying to say it, I am saying it. You won't. One of my African American co-workers told me today that even he feels threatened when someone of that description walks into the store. He feels bemused by it because he knows it comes from the same place we all get it, popular media.

Were those guys who kicked in your door black?

edit: responded too quickly I guess or my 101 temp is messing with me...

I stand corrected.  I appologise for jumping like that, I took your post the wrong way.  I just get so tired of the "it's because I'm black" line.  And when you brought in the Native Americans, it struck a chord. I've been subject of racism from this group. 

And yes, they were black, and I understand the "statistical profiling" and find myself falling to it often.  I quickly kick myself in my own but and recheck the situation based on what is there.

[custosnox]

Waterboy, Custosnox:

I agree.  A portion of the Native American tribal members share racist traits as well as race based benefits. However, on a national stage their voice is not nearly as loud as the African American caucus.  Two additional notions distinguish Native Americans from African Americans:  1) most card carrying Native American could check the "white" box on a census form and no one would know the difference.  The distinction is more one of "blood lines" than of actual race.  In fact, a person looking the part and having the genetic markers indicating a high degree of native blood will be denied benefits while a blue eyed blond haired person who can prove 1/16th will receive them.  The idea of an "Indian" having "red" skin, long black hair, or otherwise being racially distinguishable is generally false.  And 2) Native Americans enjoy a "sovereign" status and treaty rights with the U.S. government which complicates the matter. 

Hence, to avoid more complexity I choose to ignore the sub-issue of other races and greatly generalized the matter.  But I readily admit the problem is not limited to African Americans.  There are white people obsessed with race.  Native Americans motivated by race ("Got Sovereignty?"), Hispanics who still insist they should own Texas/NM/etc., and probably a group of Asians who are still pissed they got lied to and paid next to nothing to build the railroads. I was merely pointing out the most obvious as an example.

Point in case, if I did the research and got the paperwork, i too can be a car carrying indian (cherokee no less).  I refuse to as a point.

[waterboy]

I stand corrected.  I appologise for jumping like that, I took your post the wrong way.  I just get so tired of the "it's because I'm black" line.  And when you brought in the Native Americans, it struck a chord. I've been subject of racism from this group. 

And yes, they were black, and I understand the "statistical profiling" and find myself falling to it often.  I quickly kick myself in my own but and recheck the situation based on what is there.

No big deal. I've been on both sides. I also have enough Cherokee to get a card but my grandmother refused to sign the rolls as she worried that the white man might come get her. A valid concern at the time. Ironically, I felt the sting of prejudice years later from another tribe.

I will always remember one day in college as I stood on a street corner waiting for the light to change. I was a typical college student at the time wearing a tye dye shirt, long hair and scruffy beard. A station wagon drove by and a little child yelled out the window, "Look Mom! Another damn hippie!!" as his dad reached back to grab him, I turned to look just where the hippie might be. Then it dawned on me who they were pointing at...ask not for whom the bell tolls.... .

[we vs us]

As a dude who only recently came to work with the tribes, it's pretty obvious that there's an enormous amount of tension between them all.  I'm sure there's racism (tribism?) at work there, but also a lot of political jockeying for limited resources, as well as lots of cultural pride/shame stuff going on, too.  I mean, picture choosing a couple hundred thousand members of each nation in europe and forcibly resettling them all into Latvia.  And then try to treat them all as one political and cultural unit.  See how that turns out.  In a nutshell, that's the tribal dynamic in Oklahoma.