Ballpark streetscaping

[OurTulsa]

Keep in mind Bricktown was there before the Ballpark in OKC and the canal was under construction at the same time as the ballpark.  For what seemed like years nothing new happened in Bricktown after the ballpark was constructed.  Seems like it took at least 5 or so years after ballpark was completed before the area south of Reno took off.  The hotel on the north side of their ballpark was just recently constructed as were the housing in and around bricktown.  Nothing that I can recall in terms of private development was under construction in concert with the ballpark.  There was very little there - there around the ballpark though what was there was consolidated and certainly more concentrated than what we have between the Blue Dome and Brady.  

Same with their arena.  A hotel did get constructed on its east side shortly after but there was very little in terms of hotel space in downtown OKC to begin with (two others at the time).  We just got a new (third) hotel downtown and one more's in renovation now.  I don't count the Ambassador as being downtown but maybe it should be as well.

I think aggressive private sector development is on its way and the amount of people coming to games, events, and to downtown will increase each year.

The City is also getting ready to add on to their parking garage at 1st St. and Boston Av.  Not that that helps the Ballpark directly but it helps with ther parking perception downtown.  I also can't see why outside of handicap accommodations why we will need a shuttle to serve the ballpark - walk a few blocks in almost all directions and there's a glut of parking available.

[TheTed]

Hopefully that parking at OSU-Tulsa is not made available. If everybody parks there, it's not gonna do much to get people to spend money at bars/restaurants in the area. If I were a nearby bar/restaurant owner paying this tax for the ballpark, I'd be doing all I could to make sure the OSU-Tulsa lot isn't used for ballpark parking.

[TheArtist]

The more events we have downtown and the more people we have going downtown, the more viable a regular and frequent "Trolley" route or two becomes. Once that happens, most of your parking problems are moot. People will get in the habit of using the "trolley". (yes I am putting trolley in parentheses for those trolley purists lol).  Though the real trolley that Crowley had envisioned as part of the Downtown Master Plan would do the trick nicely.  

[PonderInc]

Keep in mind Bricktown was there before the Ballpark in OKC and the canal was under construction at the same time as the ballpark.  For what seemed like years nothing new happened in Bricktown after the ballpark was constructed.  Seems like it took at least 5 or so years after ballpark was completed before the area south of Reno took off.

I remember downtown Denver when they built Coors Stadium (around 1994).  At the time of completion, it was an amazing facility in an area that was...uh...full of potential.  (At the time, it wasn't really considered safe to walk around most parts of downtown Denver at night.)

Within a few years, the area had been transformed.   Now, all of downtown is thriving.

Not sure if we can attribute all good things in downtown Denver to the catalyst of the ballpark, but it sure seemed like it was the first (pioneering) project in a wave of downtown revitalization.

[sgrizzle]

I got answers to many of the questions this morning.

Brady/Ballpark streetscaping was originally designed to be done as one project. There is a red tape issue with one of the main funding sources causing a delay in the start of construction. However they will go forward with the area surrounding the ballpark regardless and in fact are already pouring sidewalks.

Also, according to the current plan:

• No pavers
• LED lighting
• Downlights only

[patric]

I got answers to many of the questions this morning.

Also, according to the current plan:

• No pavers
• LED lighting
• Downlights only

Im sure this is well meaning, but...   
"Downlights", "lights pointed down" etc. are essentially meaningless phrases thrown around by development attorneys at neighborhood meetings.
Quantifiable, industry-recognized terms (like "IES Full Cutoff") actually impart useful information, and show that the architects have done their homework.

Look at the parking lot lights at Expo Square, they are "pointed down",
Look at Skelly Stadium's lights, they are also "pointed down",
but their design puts a lot of lights in neighbor's windows for a half mile in all directions, and are nuisances that might have been avoided if we asked the right questions and got a competent design in the first place.

It's not splitting hairs, just insisting on an appropriate brush for the paint job.  That's not unreasonable, is it?

[sgrizzle]

Im sure this is well meaning, but...   
"Downlights", "lights pointed down" etc. are essentially meaningless phrases thrown around by development attorneys at neighborhood meetings.
Quantifiable, industry-recognized terms (like "IES Full Cutoff") actually impart useful information, and show that the architects have done their homework.

Look at the parking lot lights at Expo Square, they are "pointed down",
Look at Skelly Stadium's lights, they are also "pointed down",
but their design puts a lot of lights in neighbor's windows for a half mile in all directions, and are nuisances that might have been avoided if we asked the right questions and got a competent design in the first place.

It's not splitting hairs, just insisting on an appropriate brush for the paint job.  That's not unreasonable, is it?

Well the term that was told to me was "dark skies friendly"

I saw drawings of the fixtures they want to use and can't find great examples but here is the closest I can find:


Intersection light


Sidewalk lights

[patric]

Well the term that was told to me was "dark skies friendly"

I saw drawings of the fixtures they want to use and can't find great examples but here is the closest I can find:

King Luminaire (the examples you posted) make some really good lights -- and some really bad ones.  It all depends on what configuration you order.  Unfortunately, many of the models they highlight consist of cold blu-ish LEDs pointing at the horizon (which are mostly glare and not "eye friendly") like the one below, but we could get lucky and end up with one of their better models that are shielded.

If you get a chance, could you ask your source for model numbers of those lights? 
I could look them up and report on how they are likely to perform, rather than just hope for the best.

[TheTed]

Will the sidewalks that are the narrow residential width be widened?

[sgrizzle]

Will the sidewalks that are the narrow residential width be widened?

Sidewalks around the ballpark will be 5' minimum. Other areas of Brady are still "to be determined."

[sgrizzle]

King Luminaire (the examples you posted) make some really good lights -- and some really bad ones.  It all depends on what configuration you order.  Unfortunately, many of the models they highlight consist of cold blu-ish LEDs pointing at the horizon (which are mostly glare and not "eye friendly") like the one below, but we could get lucky and end up with one of their better models that are shielded.

If you get a chance, could you ask your source for model numbers of those lights? 
I could look them up and report on how they are likely to perform, rather than just hope for the best.

It is at RFP stage and I don't believe they have model numbers. The post-top lights are the kind with the LED lights shining up from the bottom of the fixture and a reflector in the top.

[patric]

It is at RFP stage and I don't believe they have model numbers. The post-top lights are the kind with the LED lights shining up from the bottom of the fixture and a reflector in the top.

That would be the fixture below.
King Luminaire doesnt give out much useful information, like photometric distribution, light color, cutoff classification, glare, uplight, etc, so Im having some lighting designers get back to me on it.

EDIT: What im hearing back so far is that this fixture is NOT listed among the people that certify "Dark Sky Friendly" fixtures, and that this may be just a manufacturer's claim.
What I see from the photos that might disqualify it would be a lot of the up-light missing the reflector and shining up into space instead of on the ground.  Ill let you know if I hear more.

[sgrizzle]

FYI, supposedly the pocket park by mexicali has had it's acorn lights retrofitted to LED. someone should take a look and see how it looks.

[patric]

At least they are flush enough with money so they dont have to worry about all the light being wasted up in the clouds.  Not that they would design responsibly or anything...
(hint:  you should not be able to see the source of properly-designed lighting from a helicopter or tall building).

[Renaissance]

Dude it's a ballpark.  They're playing professional sports on that field, not paddycake.  It's not there for decoration, it's there so the game can occur.

/ok, snark over.  Honest question: Are there stadium lights in this world that do not offend a lighting conservationist?  What fixtures should they have used?