More downtown housing allocations

[Conan71]

It is taking longer because he has a very small crew. Also, he has been riding out the economy which has dropped his contsruction costs in many areas considerably. I believe he changes aspects of the design regularly as well.

Well, that's one way to look at it.  Sager's finances have always been pretty binary as well.

[OurTulsa]

It is taking longer because he has a very small crew. Also, he has been riding out the economy which has dropped his contsruction costs in many areas considerably. I believe he changes aspects of the design regularly as well.

What?  Is he literally out there by himself washing the building brick by brick?  I would think one wouldn't be able to afford to go too slow and use too small a crew.

[sgrizzle]

What?  Is he literally out there by himself washing the building brick by brick?  I would think one wouldn't be able to afford to go too slow and use too small a crew.

One can never go too small or too slow.

[RecycleMichael]

One can never go too small or too slow.

What? I have led my life in the opposite direction.

[OurTulsa]

One can never go too small or too slow.

Maybe he's not too worried about interest payments mounting.

[akupetsky]

Well, that's one way to look at it.  Sager's finances have always been pretty binary as well.

I would hate to see good money thrown after bad.  Just a quick look on OSCN  shows multiple lawsuits against  Sager from the 90s.  Even ignoring all the lawsuits with Kitchell,  he has had six lawsuits since 2005--all for some sort of non-payment, and one as recently as this past summer.  I guess that he ultimately paid up with each of those lawsuits, since they were dismissed.  Still, as a taxpayer, I don't think it is the most promising of investments for my tax dollar.   And the First Street Lofts seems to be always "about to get off the ground".  He received the money in March of 2006.  In August of 2006, Sager announced he would break ground in 30 days (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20060828/ai_n16694369/?tag=content;col1).  It took almost a year before he actually did break ground. (http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleID=070322_1_A9_ERWor66755).  At about the same time, the UrbanTulsa ran a story about Sager's financial problems, and the fact that there were foreclosure proceedings against the BlueDome.  In September of 2007, Sager claimed that the project was "back on track" (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20070927/ai_n21025352/?tag=content;col1).  Six months later, he said that work had begun "in earnest" with completion anticipated by fall (of 2008) (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?articleID=20080419_32_E1_spancl312600).  Over a year later, Sager says that even though it doesn't look like much, "lots" has been done (like cleaning each brick individually) (http://www.tulsabusiness.com/article.asp?aID=49067&page=1).  That was last May.  Now the First Street Lofts website has been shut down, and he is coming back for more money.  Again,  I just don't want my tax dollars wasted.   I want completed projects, and I don't want to have to spend any more money to get to completion or to get paid back.

[DowntownNow]

I hear the Frankfort proposal may not move forward because they may have failed to adequately state previous development experience.  I dont necessarily agree with that take given they have the financing in place, have a plan and development proposal and what not.  I think they should be allowed to modify their proposal and identify the architects, contractors/GC, civil and what not entities IF they are in place.

Of course, the same question and concern should have been raised when Sager looked for the original Vision2025 funds.  What was his previous development experience?  Who were his contractors or GC?  He has been taking draws on the Vision2025 monies for "management" fees.  Thats one reason his project has gone on so long I think, he doesnt have the experience needed to 'manage' this task.  On top of that, the $1.3 million has been used...and there is no way the full $1.3 million has been used on the project at the level it is currently.  So where has the money gone?  I think a full open and public accounting report should be made so we all know where our tax dollars went specifically.  If the Vision2025 committee fails to do that and gives Sager additional monies then we can draw our own conclusions about how it operates and who is preferred.

Vision2025...since you like to add comments here - where is the full accounting of V2025 fund monies spent by project and is it in line with development costs?

[Conan71]

Sager's use or mis-use of funds should be of concern and needs to be audited.  I can't believe the screening process could be so lax in which developers do and don't get to participate in V-2025 funding.  Sager's reputation isn't exactly a secret.  He can blame dooshy tennants like Steve Kitchell for his financial woes, but the truth of the matter is, his track record goes back at least 20 years.

Sager is a nice enough guy, but I would never, ever enter into any sort of business arrangement with him.

[Vision 2025]

Respectfully,  it would not be appropriate for me to respond to detailed comments posted here while the City is in the process of reviewing a published solicitation. 

[EricP]

Meanwhile, as a completely outside 3rd party who works a few blocks away from the lofts "construction" I can say...

This damned building has been under construction for the entire 4.5 years I have worked in OTC downtown. If Vision 2025 gave this clown money and he is misappropriating it, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.. and if progress on the building is falling apart and I could finish it faster if I jammed a paintbrush up my donkey get his donkey out and find somebody else!

It seems nobody in Tulsa is serious about making Tulsa great, they are just going to continue going about their mediocre lives and pissing away government money.

Elliot Nelsen (sp?) practically owns all of the successful places in the Blue Dome district now.. why not own the apartments that your customers for your restaurants can live in and buy out this assclown? At least hire somebody who knows what the hell they are doing.

Signed,

Tired of seeing a big giant empty building for the past year where progress was supposed to be downtown.

[DowntownNow]

Vision2025 - detailed comments aside...just provide us an answer as to:

• What specific levels of oversight are levied against projects that receive V2025 funding?
• Who provides the oversight and ensures compliance with proposals and construction time tables?
• What costs and fees are deemed acceptable for reimbursement by V2025 funds during the construction period?
• Who determines the financial feasability of submitted projects?
• Where one can find the public accounting for any monies spent by these recipients for their respective projects to-date?

These are after all public tax dollars beign spent on these project and should be open to public record no?

[Hoss]

Vision2025 - detailed comments aside...just provide us an answer as to:

• What specific levels of oversight are levied against projects that receive V2025 funding?
• Who provides the oversight and ensures compliance with proposals and construction time tables?
• What costs and fees are deemed acceptable for reimbursement by V2025 funds during the construction period?
• Who determines the financial feasability of submitted projects?
• Where one can find the public accounting for any monies spent by these recipients for their respective projects to-date?

These are after all public tax dollars beign spent on these project and should be open to public record no?

I've not really had any problems finding that information on the Vision2025 website.  Me thinks your fishing...

[rejtul]

Of the 4 groups that applied for the funding, it appears only 1 has accomplished what they committed to do.  The Snyder Family has done a fabulous job at the Mayo.  Sales and other taxes are being collected, residents have moved in and the project is on sound financial ground.  I say, keep investing in proven proformer.  Sager is a diaster and to throw good money after bad money doesn't make an ounce of sense.  The East Village Group are not  proven performers, they don't control the dirt (who knows what TDA would do since they are hung up on $1.5-mil and HUD) and the money goes for "parking" and not housing.  Mr Wiggin's project continues to struggle do the indecision and mis-management.  The Snyders will bring their project up on line within a year and from what I can see, the proof is in the pudding, they do what they say!  If they don't get the lion share of the money, it's purely political.  Mayo Grand Opening- December 3rd.  When is the 1st street loft grand opening scheduled for, December 3rd, 2015???

[carltonplace]

Good Point ^

I'm torn between the Snyders and the East End Project

I want to see more dirt up construction in downtown and I think the East End project helps start the ball rolling to connect down town to "the bend" on east 3rd

But, there might be bigger return on investment by tight residential groups in the CBD which would drive amenities, shops and restaurants around the new folks that are walking the streets after everyone else leaves downtown to go home (they are already home). 

[Conan71]

I had gone to a wedding reception when just the main lobby area was open a couple of years ago.  I wandered through the rest of the Mayo after our Art Deco Museum meeting at Topeca the other night for the first time.  I'm very, very impressed with what the Snyders accomplished.  I'd have no problem trusting them to get a project done, especially as long as the Mayo languished, and how deteriorated it was before they came along.