Vision 2025...Part 2?

[swake]

Where are we at on the first streets package right now?  Is there a web site to see the project progress?

http://www.fixourstreetslive.com/

[Townsend]

http://www.fixourstreetslive.com/

I stopped after looking at 3 projects.  I'm having a hard time telling whether something is behind or on schedule.

[Townsend]

High Court told Dam Project Funding Illegal

http://kwgs.com/post/high-court-told-dam-project-funding-illegal

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — The Oklahoma Supreme Court is weighing arguments on whether a $25 million state bond issue to fund improvements at the Zink Lake Dam in Tulsa would be unconstitutional.

A former chairman of the state bond oversight council told the high court Thursday that the funding should be blocked because the money would be a constitutionally prohibited gift to Tulsa from the state.

Attorneys for the state, the Tulsa River Parks Authority and the Tulsa Metro Chamber told justices that the project serves a state public purpose and funding should be allowed to go forward.

The Tulsa World reports that the bond oversight council asked the state Supreme Court to evaluate the funding plan before the bonds are let.

[nathanm]

Funny how the many millions of dollars we give away every year in development incentives aren't gifts from the state, but a dam on public land in the middle of a river is. 

[Townsend]

Funny how the many millions of dollars we give away every year in development incentives aren't gifts from the state, but a dam on public land in the middle of a river is. 

Might've been a bit more egg on faces if V2 had passed and this was suddenly unconstitutional. 

We may need to make sure everything's okay with OKC before we try to vote on any other development plans here in Tulsa.

[sgrizzle]

The dam is politics. They bundled an OKC and a Tulsa project together to get it passed, funded the OKC project, then want to throw it out. Complete BS.

[DTowner]

And yet somehow the $70 million in state bond funds given to the OKC Native American Museum that sits idle, incomplete, underfunded, and wasting away was for the benefit of all Oklahoma.

In reality, it sounds like the the biggest legal danger to Tulsa's river funds is the change in description from what was passed to how the funds are now to be used.  If we lose at the Okla. S.Ct., that will be why.

In the meantime, any Tulsa area legislator who votes for any bond money for any OKC project should be immediately tarred and feathered and then voted out of office.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Funny how the many millions of dollars we give away every year in development incentives aren't gifts from the state, but a dam on public land in the middle of a river is. 

It's only that way because someone forgot to give that particular guy the weekend golf trip to Bella Vista he so richly deserves.  When the proper "apologies" are made, the objections will melt away like an ice cube in the desert.

[nathanm]

Does ice actually melt in the desert, or is it more like sublimation? 

[Red Arrow]

Does ice actually melt in the desert, or is it more like sublimation? 

Depends on the temperature.  If there is liquid water present, there has been melting.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Does ice actually melt in the desert, or is it more like sublimation? 

Only real experience I have with that was in Death Valley.  Poured out a cup of ice from a drink.  Definitely melted.  Kind of fast, too.  Sand at 150 degrees holds quite a bit of heat...

[nathanm]

Only real experience I have with that was in Death Valley.  Poured out a cup of ice from a drink.  Definitely melted.  Kind of fast, too.  Sand at 150 degrees holds quite a bit of heat...

Ah data, I like that. 

[TulsaRufnex]

The arena was never really the sticking point with those two votes, it was the crazy stuff included (soccer stadium, natatorium) that was deemed unnecessary at the time.  Mayor Savage really screwed that one up.

The first one (1997 - Tulsa Project) included a 5,000 seat soccer/track & field stadium as well as the natatorium.  If we built the natatorium, Tulsans could have seen the likes of Michael Phelps competing here prior to the Olympics (2000, 2004, 2008, 2012).... The idea, or at least a part of it, was to imitate and compete with the success of cities like Indianapolis in attracting Olympic trials, collegiate championships, etc. that would breathe some economic life into downtown.

The second one (2000 - It's Tulsa Time) only included the arena and failed by a closer margin.

What Tulsa DID do in 1993 was expand Drillers+Stadium to a capacity of 10,963 in an effort to attract AAA baseball to town.

Using 20/20 hindsight, the expansion of Drillers Stadium was a bad idea while a 5,000 seat soccer/track & field stadium could have been hosting dozens and dozens of sporting events on the east side of downtown every year in the past decade-plus... our best ideas for that part of downtown these days seems to involve building a handful of townhomes, converting an ugly powder blue mid-century auto dealership into "loft-style" apts, moving a church downtown from Brookside, and moving Tulsa Opera HQ into an old fire station...

Color me un-impressed.

 

[Hoss]

The first one (1997 - Tulsa Project) included a 5,000 seat soccer/track & field stadium as well as the natatorium.  If we built the natatorium, Tulsans could have seen the likes of Michael Phelps competing here prior to the Olympics (2000, 2004, 2008, 2012).... The idea, or at least a part of it, was to imitate and compete with the success of cities like Indianapolis in attracting Olympic trials, collegiate championships, etc. that would breathe some economic life into downtown.

The second one (2000 - It's Tulsa Time) only included the arena and failed by a closer margin.

What Tulsa DID do in 1993 was expand Drillers+Stadium to a capacity of 10,963 in an effort to attract AAA baseball to town.

Using 20/20 hindsight, the expansion of Drillers Stadium was a bad idea while a 5,000 seat soccer/track & field stadium could have been hosting dozens and dozens of sporting events on the east side of downtown every year in the past decade-plus... our best ideas for that part of downtown these days seems to involve building a handful of townhomes, converting an ugly powder blue mid-century auto dealership into "loft-style" apts, moving a church downtown from Brookside, and moving Tulsa Opera HQ into an old fire station...

Color me un-impressed.

 

But having the natatorium and soccer stadium on the east side of downtown -- at that time in history -- would  have been a difficult proposal, given that downtown at that time was essentially a ghost town.

Back then, citizens were right in defeating it.  There wasn't the downtown infrastructure to support it.

[RecycleMichael]

I would support a reasonable soccer stadium proposal in the next round of projects.

Soccer is big money for many families. I am going to spend a couple thousand this year alone on my two kids playing competitive soccer. We will travel to Texas, Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas with dozens of other families and stay in hotels, eat in restaurants, etc. There are hundreds of families in Tulsa doing the same thing.

Tulsa youth soccer dominates the region. We have numerous teams and many good coaches all making an nice extra income after school.

I think a professional soccer team would do very well here. My family would buy season tickets and I know many other families who would also purchase tickets.