Vision 2025...Part 2?

[nathanm]

I know a nice warm island where your Social Security check will get you a decent standard of living. Don't worry, there's plenty to complain about, so you won't get bored.

[Red Arrow]

How is a bus manufacturing company connected with aerospace at the airport?

There is air inside the buses and space for people to ride.

[Red Arrow]

In reality this is a small drop in the bucket for AA, and they will take anything and everything we will give them and give nothing back in return.

That is the potential problem.  I won't mind helping if we can be reasonably assured of something favorable to Tulsa and Tulsa employees in return. And, FWIW, I have no interest in helping AA bring DFW area employees here to displace Tulsa employees.  That may be a contract thing but I am not interested.  Let DFW area people send some money here if they want to save their jobs.

[Weatherdemon]

The top things I don't like about this:


1) 3/4 of a billion dollars in taxes thrown together in a few weeks?

2) Using a 1/4 of a billion dollars of this to appease/please AA?

3) Wanting to use a large portion of Tulsa's share for the Gilcrease Expressway?

4) Not having any city with the county being able to provide any details on how they would spend this money they didn't ask for?

5) Wanting to take this to ballot without each dollar accounted for?

6) Taking this to ballot with no oversight (that I have seen anyway)

[swake]

I don't mind so much spending to upgrade the physical buildings at the airport, but I dislike buying tools to American's specifications. They may well not be here very long.

Why on earth is a river bridge for the Gilcrease Loop a priority? The highways in the area carry very little traffic. The reason the state doesn't want to pay to build a northwest loop is it's not needed. Just because it's been a line on a map for a long time is not a reason to spend a ton of money.

Spend the money on two streetcar lines. One that connects TU, The Pearl, downtown and then out to Cherry St, Utica Square, Brookside and the new River park. And another that runs from OSU Tulsa through downtown to OSU Medical and the west bank. Work on infill in the city, not more and more highways that drive development further outward.

[Teatownclown]

I got a good idea....spend the money on the public welfare through infrastructure improvements. Our lazy councilors and Mayor need to define our real future needs and quit letting the Chambermaids dictate their priorities. Really surprised Blake's already become "one of them."

I am focused on quality of living issues but it seems to be the minority view. Most people are concerned about "things to do" and supplying funds for corporate welfare. The Gilcrease should be a toll road.

Tulsa's tax rate is way too high to compete with other cities for new jobs.... besides, our air and water quality are abysmal.

[carltonplace]

Personally I'm sour on any county wide initiative, there are plenty of things that we need in the city; the county is already fixed (after two 4 to fix initiatives and one round of V2025).

I agree with the above. We need transportation in this town: quick circulator routes between nodes. We need smart parking options in downtown.

I just returned from Spokane, WA and was impressed with their tight urban downtown, bicycle lanes, jogging trails, River park, retail, hotel and transit options. Their downtown is packed with people.

[Teatownclown]

Personally I'm sour on any county wide initiative, there are plenty of things that we need in the city; the county is already fixed (after two 4 to fix initiatives and one round of V2025).

I agree with the above. We need transportation in this town: quick circulator routes between nodes. We need smart parking options in downtown.

I just returned from Spokane, WA and was impressed with their tight urban downtown, bicycle lanes, jogging trails, River park, retail, hotel and transit options. Their downtown is packed with people.

Spokane's more international...Tulsan's will NEVER abandon their cars. Wish we would. It might help with the air quality. But as a priority, public transportation is wishful thinking.

[swake]

Personally I'm sour on any county wide initiative, there are plenty of things that we need in the city; the county is already fixed (after two 4 to fix initiatives and one round of V2025).

I agree with the above. We need transportation in this town: quick circulator routes between nodes. We need smart parking options in downtown.

I just returned from Spokane, WA and was impressed with their tight urban downtown, bicycle lanes, jogging trails, River park, retail, hotel and transit options. Their downtown is packed with people.

I could get behind buying up surface lots downtown and building garages. Sell the lots to bidder with most urban design plan

[Teatownclown]

I could get behind buying up surface lots downtown and building garages. Sell the lots to bidder with most urban design plan

It works the other way around..."build it and they will come" theories do not justify financial expenditures for the lenders. You think the city will buy up raw land? Sounds like socialism or even communism.

The only land you'll see the city buying might be the land where the Gilcrease Expressway goes.

[JCnOwasso]

Sweet, I wonder what crazy thing owasso would use a part of the V2 funds for this time.  I mean the city of character thing is pretty played out and honestly I am tired of it... like when they had accountability or something like that up during the period where one of the city officials got busted for DUI. 

Why are they working to complete the Gilcrease loop?  Have I missed a massive flow of traffic somewhere?   The benefit of something like that is to miss a traffic headache and the only traffic headaches we have right now are caused by construction.  Also you want to use it as a straight path around a city... and technically you have to hop on 244 from 44, hit highway 11, stop at a stoplight etc... I am not sure what is the benefit of that. 

I guess there is a reason I am just a peon.  I don't have the vision (no pun) needed to see the benefits that these people are obviously seeing.

I am down for the street cars though.  That would be pretty awesome.   

[Townsend]

Why are they working to complete the Gilcrease loop?  

Is someone close to the mayor a large property owner in the area?

You know..."they".

[Teatownclown]

I think it's about balanced growth....We have hit the wall south and east is a bastion of hard rock.

I do not think it has to do with Screwy's friends...he may not have many left. He did have incentive to get the Creek done that way, but the Gilcrease is a long promise unfulfilled by our city leaders.

Trolley's are for trolls....

[shadows]

The city desk jockeys went through thousands of dollars of tax monies planning an industrial park along the Mingo road joining the airport to the east with a third runway and railroad tracks.  They blew it up on all the jobs it would create.  After the carnival grandstanding ballyhoo they expected a land rush for a private investor to gab the ball and run. The general consensus of private investors was “NOT WITH MY MONEY”. 

It is now being submitted by the good old city desk jockeys again but this time they we will tax the necessities of life (quality-of-life if one pleases) on the very limited incomes need to sustain the life in the city they build by the sweat of their brows.   The time has come to recognize this struggle to maintain the very essentials that are becoming beyond their reach.

The cities are conducting a bidding war to entice the 9% of the job in production of goods for sale and diverting the public thinking that the quality-of-life can be accomplished in a service economy.   If the city thinks they can outbid other cities in this borderline communism then it is well on its way.           

[TheArtist]

They want the Gilcrease Loop in good part precisely because of what the comprehensive plan process pointed out that we are running out of quick, easy, sprawl type development land in the city.  The Tulsa Hills area has given us a reprive but after that it would be the Gilcrease loop area.  Thing is they also said that we would grow more and faster as a city if we took the quality, urban infill route.

As for Tulsans not wanting pedestrian/transit friendly development.  Hogwash.  It's just that we make it illegal in 90% of the city such that even in the areas like downtown where you can try to build it, your fighting against everything else.  And we don't support pedestrian/transit friendly development with the infrastructure like we do car oriented development (aka Gilcrease Expressway).  Plus I have known plenty of Tulsans who love urban living... most of them eventually leave, and others that like it and want to move here don't because we don't have any good urban areas. So it's not a really a fair assessment to say that Tulsa's dont want urban living or non car oriented lifestyles when we make it illegal to build it and then run off everyone that does want it lol.