Vision 2025...Part 2?

[Teatownclown]

Conan, we're on tv....watch your language!

[Conan71]

Conan, we're on tv....watch your language!

Even better!

[sgrizzle]

Channel Six report last night on the new part of Vision 2025 said that "The Tulsa Now Forum" was against it.
They even showed the web site page and logo. Way to go TNF.

[Ed W]

Rodney Ray, Owasso's city manager, weighed in on the sales tax extension in today's TW:

City Manager Rodney Ray said he doesn't expect Owasso to immediately identify how it would spend an estimated $14.4 million generated by the passage of a Tulsa County Vision2 initiative.

..."I don't know how you can define and list the priorities you want five years from now when, A, you're not sure you're going to get the money, and, B, not sure those are the priorities you are going to have," Ray said in a telephone interview. "We're probably bucking the trend a little bit. I don't know that other cities are in agreement. I think there's a real rush right now to hold public meetings and everybody come together and sing 'Kumbaya' over projects that may or may not get done."

 

City councilor Patrick Ross (aka Moe) added that without knowing the outcome of November's election, it's preposterous to consider the tax extension in light of our current economy.  Remember, Patrick has his eye on the big picture as it includes the UN attempting to take over the world, black helicopters hovering overhead, and socialists hiding under his bed.

Seriously, this proposal to extend the sales tax should die at the polls if only because it's asking us to sign a blank check for area government.

[AquaMan]

Rodney Ray, Owasso's city manager, weighed in on the sales tax extension in today's TW:

City Manager Rodney Ray said he doesn't expect Owasso to immediately identify how it would spend an estimated $14.4 million generated by the passage of a Tulsa County Vision2 initiative.

..."I don't know how you can define and list the priorities you want five years from now when, A, you're not sure you're going to get the money, and, B, not sure those are the priorities you are going to have," Ray said in a telephone interview. "We're probably bucking the trend a little bit. I don't know that other cities are in agreement. I think there's a real rush right now to hold public meetings and everybody come together and sing 'Kumbaya' over projects that may or may not get done."

 

City councilor Patrick Ross (aka Moe) added that without knowing the outcome of November's election, it's preposterous to consider the tax extension in light of our current economy.  Remember, Patrick has his eye on the big picture as it includes the UN attempting to take over the world, black helicopters hovering overhead, and socialists hiding under his bed.

Seriously, this proposal to extend the sales tax should die at the polls if only because it's asking us to sign a blank check for area government.

What do these guys think managers and planners do? Did they misunderstand the job description? Having 5 year plans, 10 year plans and anticipating the needs of a city rather than waiting till the last minute is the function of leaders, planners and managers. Otherwise you're just managing one crisis after another.

I agree with you Ed. If your leaders are that dense, I sure wouldn't put money anywhere near them.

[nathanm]

5 year plan

Are you some kind of communist? 

[Ed W]

What do these guys think managers and planners do? Did they misunderstand the job description? Having 5 year plans, 10 year plans and anticipating the needs of a city rather than waiting till the last minute is the function of leaders, planners and managers. Otherwise you're just managing one crisis after another.

I agree with you Ed. If your leaders are that dense, I sure wouldn't put money anywhere near them.

Rodney is a realist. I'm guessing, but I think he knows this plan is dead in the water unless the uses for the money are spelled out clearly for the voters. 

Ross, on the other hand, can be summed up as "ideology uber alles" even when that flies in the face of responsible government and common sense. 

I have a cynic's view of the planning process as well.  It goes something like this.  First, solicit the public for their views on planning.  Next, develop four plans loosely based on those views: One that's a Taj Mahal that is impossibly expensive, two more that are obviously inadequate, and a third version that the planning department wanted to implement in the first place before any public interference.  Present all four plans in a public meeting for 'input' and happily discover that the only one the people want is the one they were going to get anyway.

[AquaMan]

Rodney is a realist. I'm guessing, but I think he knows this plan is dead in the water unless the uses for the money are spelled out clearly for the voters. 

Ross, on the other hand, can be summed up as "ideology uber alles" even when that flies in the face of responsible government and common sense. 

I have a cynic's view of the planning process as well.  It goes something like this.  First, solicit the public for their views on planning.  Next, develop four plans loosely based on those views: One that's a Taj Mahal that is impossibly expensive, two more that are obviously inadequate, and a third version that the planning department wanted to implement in the first place before any public interference.  Present all four plans in a public meeting for 'input' and happily discover that the only one the people want is the one they were going to get anyway.

Cynical but insightful. I found that process to be true through most of the river development planning. Meetings are carefully designed to direct, re-direct or muffle public input. I think some meetings use plants as well. All for pragmatic reasons I suspect but the result is a feeling of being manipulated. That is the result of a poor management style.

Rodney is missing an opportunity to develop a relationship with his electorate under a "no pressure" situation. Yes, its likely to fail, but because of that any ideas that come up from the ranks are pure, not ideological or forced. Ross on the other hand needs replaced. Are you a registered voter and available? Your community commands you!

Yes, Nathan. I am a Democrat who leans left. So I must be either Communist or Commie leaning. Socialist at the very least. We all have our purpose.

[Red Arrow]

Yes, Nathan. I am a Democrat who leans left. So I must be either Communist or Commie leaning. Socialist at the very least.

I thought the 5 year plan was part of your business training.  Look forward 5 years but no farther.

We all have our purpose.

You can always be a example of what not to be.   

[Ed W]

You can always be a example of what not to be.   

That's funny, 'cause I have the same thought when I look at the other end of the political spectrum too! 

[AquaMan]

So to summarize- Good businessmen live for 2, 5 and 10 yr plans. As role models our misspent youth, unrealized potential and squandered educational opportunities serve as road signs for the next generation (we serve as roadkill). And, only the truly flawed people are suitable for political office.

Any dissent?

[Red Arrow]

So to summarize- Good businessmen live for 2, 5 and 10 yr plans. As role models our misspent youth, unrealized potential and squandered educational opportunities serve as road signs for the next generation (we serve as roadkill). And, only the truly flawed people are suitable for political office.

Any dissent?

I think you just made up the 10 year plan.  It doesn't exist.

[Red Arrow]

That's funny, 'cause I have the same thought when I look at the other end of the political spectrum too! 

No surprise there. 

[Ed W]

And, only the truly flawed people are suitable for political office.

Any dissent?

Wait a minute!  Didn't you just urge me to run for office?  I may have one or two minor foibles - though the women in this house may insist there are many, many more - but don't listen to them.  Listen to me.  I never lie and I'm always right.

[AquaMan]

We can't even agree on the summary!

Nice catch Ed. No offense meant. You could be the exception that proves the rule so to speak.

Red, when I was a business student that was what they drummed into us. A short range plan (2 years or less), which was designed to accomplish the 5yr plan which fit into a long range plan (10yrs). Its probably outdated now with the immediate gratification generation. I notice the city planners seem to follow a similar framework with their comprehensive plan. Its easier to make changes to a long term plan after receiving feedback than it is to change short term plans which may already be in effect. That's why organizations sometimes look so dumb.

The better the mid and long term plans, the better the short term looks. I remember talking with execs at our local cable company back in the 1980's about the future of programming. They were already anticipating today's digital type systems where the viewer could buy his own personal programming. On the other hand, the programming my friend was pitching, NASCAR and other motorsports on their own channel, seemed like a stretch to them. They just never saw that trend coming.