Vision 2025...Part 2?

[guido911]

So what's the tally in here. Here's me on Vision 2:

Yes:  ___

No      X

[Ed W]

So what's the tally in here. Here's me on Vision 2:

Yes:  ___

No      X

No.

[AquaMan]

ixnay

[swake]

No

[Red Arrow]

Red, when I was a business student that was what they drummed into us. A short range plan (2 years or less), which was designed to accomplish the 5yr plan which fit into a long range plan (10yrs). Its probably outdated now with the immediate gratification generation.

My dad (got) retired in 1984.  Even by then, "the program" did not extend to 10 years.  He told me details not suitable for this forum to back that up.   You may have been taught that in school but it didn't exist in practice.

[Red Arrow]

So what's the tally in here. Here's me on Vision 2:

Yes:  ___

No      X

I am leaning towards "NO" due to lack of details, especially out of the City of Tulsa.  I think the property at TUL needs to be maintained just to be a good landlord.  Special deals for AA, I'm not so sure.

[Townsend]

So what's the tally in here. Here's me on Vision 2:

Yes:  ___

No      X

No

[TheArtist]

So what's the tally in here. Here's me on Vision 2:

Yes:  ___

No      X

No

[RecycleMichael]

I was undecided until I saw all of you guys are against.

To be true to my rebel nature, I now must be for.

[carltonplace]

I was leaning "for" until the Mayor opened his yap and said that we would have years to decide what to spend the money on.

YES ___

NO  X

[Gaspar]

NO

[swake]

Here's where the money would go:

Proposition 1: Economic development
Airport industrial complex buildings and infrastructure - $122 million
Airport industrial complex equipment - $132 million
Closing fund - $52.942 million
Bond costs and interest - $79.938 million

Specifics from the Tulsa World story.

There is $20-25 million for upgrades to the IC Bus facility. A site that they are required to maintain and pay $1 a year in rent on. Is this really something they are asking for or need? Is there any growth potential here at all? I can reluctantly support this but is there really a demonstrated need? Are they not subsidized enough with the rent?

$12-16 million for Spirit. They pay much more in rent, a little under 650k a year. Couldn't that rent be used to pay bonds for upgrades?

American. $200 million to $210 million. An interesting nugget. They are paying $19 million a year in city bond costs, not rent. They could easily default here. They own nothing, not even the equipment at the site. They could just walk away. They likely will, they are the only airline that does the bulk of their own work. American is in middle of laying off a thousand people here and are making no commitment to hire anyone back or even keep any people. Even if they claim they will do so, the company is in buyout talks with two other airlines and the people running American today will not likely still be running it a year from now. This is a ton of money to spend with zero guarantees. This includes money for TRAINING at American. This is bad, bad, bad. For this amount of money you need iron clad commitments on the number of people employed, at what salary, with employee growth guaranteed, not loss. Maybe the hanger improvements would be ok now, but not the $132 million in equipment and training for American. If they leave who is to say what equipment the next tenant would need?

I would support a closing fund.

Proposition 2: Quality-of-life improvements
Tulsa County - $92 million
Tulsa - $157.92 million
Bixby - $11.3 million
Broken Arrow - $44.1 million
Collinsville - $3 million
Glenpool - $5.9 million
Jenks - $9.2 million
Owasso - $14.38 million
Sand Springs - $10.1 million
Skiatook - $1.16 million
Sperry - $643,894

The county will spend $38 million on the Juvenile center, I support this but I don't know what the county is going to use the other $54 million on.


Bartlett's dozen projects for the Tulsa money:

1) Arkansas River, $55 million: Rebuilding the Dam for Zink, White Water rafting facility and if the state funding comes through, the 106th St Dam
2) Tulsa Zoo, $20 million
3) Parks, $15 million: Large regional recreation center at Lacy Park with additional funding for The Turkey Mountain urban wilderness area
4) Gilcrease Expressway extension, $10 million
5) Riverside Drive park-and-ride infrastructure, $10 million: A new parking garage at Riverside Drive and Interstate 44
6) Downtown, $10 million: No defined use at all
7) Neighborhoods, $10 million: No defined use yet
8 Brownfield cleanups, $5 million: Morton Health Center, 636 E. Pine St.; the Evans-Fintube site in the 100 block of North Lansing Avenue; a former gas station at 3519 N. Hartford Ave.; Apache Circle in the 500 block of East Apache Street; a shopping center in the 2100 block of North Cincinnati Avenue; and another former gas station at 1047 E. Apache St.
9) Oklahoma State University-Tulsa medical school, $5 million
10) University of Oklahoma-University of Tulsa medical school, $5 million
11) Trails, $5 million: Nothing specific
12) OSU Medical Center, $2.5 million

1 – I support this
2 – I support this
3 – We are tearing down centers that we cannot staff or maintain and you want to build a new one and the city is in court NOW trying to tear down a center not half a mile from this park. Idiotic.
4 – Idiotic. We have built much of the Tisdale and the Gilcrease Expressways and now within 2-3 miles of these existing highways there are miles and miles of undeveloped land, and nothing at all going on there. No development at all. No one is ever going to build new homes where the kids that live in the subdivisions would have to go to northside TPS schools. It's not going to happen. This is worse than idiotic
5 – Parking garage at a park at 51st Street. This is beyond stupid.
6 – No blank checks for Dewey
7 - No blank checks for Dewey
8 – More sites for TDA to hang on to for 3-4 decades with no activity, no thank you
9 – What other cities in Oklahoma fund their public colleges? Oh wait, none? I can support this, but it becomes tiresome that OSU hits Tulsa up so much for funding and doesn't do any building at OSU Tulsa on their own. I really begin to doubt OSU real commitment to Tulsa. I worry that they see Tulsa as a competitor to the Stillwater campus.
10 – I can support this for a new college, but it's not really a significant amount of money to them
11 – Specifics would be nice
12 – I can support this for the hospital, but it's not really a significant amount of money to them

I am now a firm NO.

No money for downtown housing, no money for downtown parks, no money for downtown garages or transit. A blank check for Dewey to spend downtown that I am sure would be wasted. Lots of undirected county money. Lots of American specific money that goes basically right to their bottom line with no guarantees to us.

We have years to get this list right before the current tax expires. Let's get it right.

[Townsend]

Who are all these masses of people I keep hearing really really really want the Gilcrease expressway funded with this?

If that ends up on the plan then I can't help but think that this was all just a BS set up.

[carltonplace]

I think there is a future need for park and ride along Riverside, but the "parking" facility should be at the Creek Turnpike or Jenks and not at I44. If a train is involved then it needs to be on the west side of the river and not built or maintained by Tulsa tax payers.

[nathanm]

Given that we're already in the same sort of deal, I wouldn't be terribly against the AA money so long as we're buying equipment to work on 787s, their new 737s and whatever Airbuses they should be taking delivery on soon. (319 NEO, I think?) I'm fully in support of whatever maintenance needs to be done on the buildings and ramp areas. That said, if AA does actually merge with US, I don't think that airline will be long for this world. Maybe I'm just in denial, but I don't see it happening. Either way, they're not the only ones with orders in for new aircraft, and they're going to have to be maintained somewhere.

I'm incredibly annoyed by the slush fund money, though. Rebuilding Zink Dam? Ok. The park and ride is beyond stupid and the Gilcrease extension is completely unneeded, though. The existing road already gets very little traffic west of 75. Back to the drawing board, I guess. I just hate giving the impression that we're not willing to pony up for the stuff that's actually needed/useful.