Vision 2025...Part 2?

[shadows]

It is such an amazing city.  I was under the impression that the bus manufacturing company signed a thirty year lease on a half a mile of building #3 for $1.00 a year.  In the TW a spokesman for the bus company indicated to the reporter that the company had set aside money to maintain the building but if the city wants to share the windfall of sales taxes collected from the working poor and SS retirees the company would find some other place for their share of the building maintenance money.  (Bonuses huh?)   

[nathanm]

You got a date on that, so I can look in the TW archives and find that quote? It would be more than a little interesting to know whether your recollection is correct.

[DTowner]

I think Don Walker needs to be a little more careful in his critique of opponents of V2.  The "historic naysayers" are not the ones who will defeat V2 - the naysayers, by definition, always say no.  It is those, like me, who voted for all the previous projects but find this one too flawed to back that will cause V2 to go down.  Alienating those you will need to support the revamped package that will come back to voters in a year or more (yes, that is my prediction V2 will fail) is not a good idea. 

Vision2 opponents rally against 'boondoggle'


Ronda Vuillemont-Smith speaks against the Vision2 tax proposal during a rally held by the Citizens for a Better Vision group at City Hall in Tulsa on Monday. MATT BARNARD / Tulsa World They will try to defeat the measure using signs and other low-cost methods.By BRIAN BARBER World Staff Writer
Published: 10/9/2012  2:25 AM
Last Modified: 10/9/2012  6:09 AM



Read more about the proposal and the status of Vision 2025 projects.


Opponents of the Vision2 proposal said Monday that they might not have enough money for slick television ads or direct mail - like the supporters of the $748.8 million Tulsa County tax proposal - but that their message is resonating.

"I think it says a lot that they are having to spend as much as they are," said Ronda Vuillemont-Smith of Citizens for a Better Vision, which is using social media, signs and word of mouth to reach people.

The grass-roots organization kicked of its campaign efforts Monday with a rally of about 20 members outside Tulsa's City Hall.

"We are a diversified group of citizens that loves and appreciates Tulsa County and all it has to offer but believe Vision2 is a boondoggle that is too rushed, too much, too soon, too sloppy and too vague," Vuillemont-Smith said.

"Citizens for a Better Vision wants to see our community thrive and prosper and believes Tulsa can do better than this hastily thrown-together plan."

The Vision2 proposal, which will be on the ballot Nov. 6, includes two portions that will be voted on separately.

The first proposition would fund improvements at the city's airport industrial park, much of it benefiting American Airlines, and a deal-closing fund to help lure new business and boost existing companies in the area.

The second proposition would fund quality-of-life projects in cities across Tulsa County, including low-water dams, zoo upgrades and others.

"We believe tax dollars shouldn't be used to bail out a bankrupt business in a failing industry," Vuillemont-Smith said. "Neither the chamber of commerce or government should pick winners and losers in the private sector but instead should work to provide a positive business environment for all."

Vuillemont-Smith, who ran earlier this year for the state Senate District 25 seat but lost in the GOP primary, also said capital improvements should be funded on a pay-as-you-go basis.

As proposed, Vision2 includes about $100 million in bond interest costs.

"Money spent on interest and loan fees is money that can't be spent on public improvements," she said.

Former City Councilor Roscoe Turner said many of the current councilors are scared to speak out against the Tulsa Metro Chamber-backed proposal publicly for fear of reprisal.

"During the election period, the chamber gave them money and told them they'd be watching," he said. "I think they are worried about being unseated."

Everyone needs to get involved to defeat Vision2, Turner said.

"The lights need to come on in City Hall so people can see how their government operates," he said. "As soon as I left office, the lights went out and the cockroaches started to come out again."

Former City Councilor Maria Barnes said she was a supporter of Vision 2025 and the failed 2007 river tax vote.

"But this is one I cannot get behind," she said. "They are taking it too quick. Neighborhoods and individuals have not had a chance to come forward and be involved. I think we need to step back and really look at this and work together from the beginning."

Tulsa County Republican Party Chairman J.B. Alexander said he talks to people every day who know nothing about the proposal.

"There was no public input before it was put on the ballot," he said. "There should have been public meetings first to discuss 'Do we want this tax?' not, 'What do you want to do with the money after we pass it?' "

State Sen.-elect Nathan Dahm of south Tulsa and Broken Arrow's District 33 said Vision2 does not reflect the proper role of government.

"Government should not be involved in economic developments," he said. "That's what they are claiming this is, but in reality it's crony capitalism."

Supporters of Vision2 opened a campaign headquarters Sunday in the Fontana shopping center at 51st Street and Memorial Drive. Their theme is "Keep a Good Thing Going."

Vision2 Co-chairman Don Walker described the opposition group on Monday as "historic naysayers."

"It's clear that the opposition has little to do with Vision2 but has become a platform for historic naysayers, many of whom led the dysfunctional City Council we had in recent years or are in pursuit of a political office," he said.

"It's sad to me that personal politics has caused these folks to jeopardize thousands of Tulsa County jobs, put our public safety at risk, and stop much-needed improvements to our county's infrastructure."

Walker said Vision2 is a comprehensive countywide plan that benefits the entire region and continues to move it forward.

"It is about protecting thousands of good-paying jobs for families in our communities," he said, "as well as investing in our infrastructure, the river, the zoo, the library and many more worthwhile projects - all without an increase in taxes."

Vision2 would extend the Vision 2025 tax share from 2017 to 2029.



Brian Barber 918-581-8322
brian.barber@tulsaworld.com


Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=334&articleid=20121009_11_A12_CUTLIN799443

[Conan71]

How does Don Walker spew that crap with a straight face?

[nathanm]

I think Don Walker needs to be a little more careful in his critique of opponents of V2.  The "historic naysayers" are not the ones who will defeat V2 - the naysayers, by definition, always say no. 

It's OK, Ronda also makes no sense, either. Nobody's hands are clean in that article.

[shadows]

You got a date on that, so I can look in the TW archives and find that quote? It would be more than a little interesting to know whether your recollection is correct.

Monday 10/8/2012:  Headliner; page 1 "Vision 2 could aid bus plant" read the complete article as the bus company seems to have been ask if they wanted some money. 

[shadows]

Once up on a time before 2025 a flood was coming down the Arkansas River that was assumed to flood Brookside and the Bixby Bottoms.  The officials made a call for volunteers to fill sandbags to dike the river to protect the area. I and many others met on Riverside Drive filling the sandbags.  The county hauled the sand to the locations.  After the flood passed there was a question as who was owner of the piles of sand and whose obligation it was to remove it off the drive.

Afterwards the engineers said the low water dams projected for the river must be inflatable so they could be let down allowing the floods to pass.

Where are those engineers now?   Oh well the millions of dollars that will be dumped in the city hall coffers will find a new homes as it is taken from the citizens that are listed in poverty. 

[sgrizzle]

How does Don Walker spew that crap with a straight face?

I like Don Walker, but not a fan of what he said in this article. But this is the same news source that said I wanted to raise taxes... so there's that.

[Townsend]

So they're going with:

"Do it for the children" again.

TW FB post:

The Tulsa Children's Museum has existed without walls since 2007, using mobile exhibits to reach out to more than 40,000 children at area schools and community centers.

Yes to V2 FB post:

Did you know Tulsa is the ONLY top 100 city in the US that doesn't have or hasn't begun construction on a permanent Children's Museum? Invest in Tulsa County's future and put our children on equal footing with the rest of the nation by voting YES to Vision2!

After the vote, if V2 is passed, does the county still get final say whether these things will happen?  If so, who, in the county, will make these decisions?

[Vision 2025]

After the vote, if V2 is passed, does the county still get final say whether these things will happen?  If so, who, in the county, will make these decisions?

As I see it, logistically the individual municipal resolutions are essentially binding to the County Commissioners.  However, I would see that being unless a project submitted/identified was to not meet the criteria established in the Ballot Resolution approved by the County Commissioners.  I see this as the same process when the Vision Authority made a binding recommendation to the County Commissioners for additional funding for the Arena and Convention Center.

[Teatownclown]

So they're going with:

"Do it for the children" again.

TW FB post:

Yes to V2 FB post:

After the vote, if V2 is passed, does the county still get final say whether these things will happen?  If so, who, in the county, will make these decisions?

A Children's Museum can be done in downtown with a lot less expense that is being portrayed here. Another reason why this entire proposition seems absurd to me....

[DTowner]

So they're going with:

"Do it for the children" again.

TW FB post:

Yes to V2 FB post:

After the vote, if V2 is passed, does the county still get final say whether these things will happen?  If so, who, in the county, will make these decisions?

And if V2 passes, Tulsa will continue to be without a Children's museum and all the other quality of life developments for years because nothing will start for 4+ years until the tax kicks in.  The mayor was on 6 in the Morning today and Rich Lenz stumbled around and asked him if any any of those projects were "shovel ready" and when folks could expect to see results.  The mayor said work on the existing Arkansas river dam would begin within a year (if so, must be with $ from another source, in which case, is V2 relevant?) and work on the airport properties would begin immediately, but ignored everything else. 

http://www.newson6.com/category/121535/video-page?autostart=true&clipId=7823763

Don Walker should not let V2 take his reputation down with it.

[Townsend]

Just read a twitter conversation between "yes to vision 2" and "vote no on vision 2".

I think both sides need new folk in charge of their twitter feed.

I did wonder about this though:

@YestoVision2 - In your 4 day rush from announcement to placement on ballot, why did you never get a signed guarantee by AA, IC, or Spirit

They should've gotten some sort of agreement from the beneficiaries.

[sgrizzle]

Just read a twitter conversation between "yes to vision 2" and "vote no on vision 2".

I think both sides need new folk in charge of their twitter feed.

The no side asked for donations to pay for signs then said they were "too busy" to deliver the signs they got donations for. Bad form.

[Townsend]

Now "yes to vision 2" and "vote no on vision 2" have challenged each other to a tweet debate.

They are debating currently about scheduling the debate on Twitter.

Quickly, someone get over there and help them out.