Vision 2025...Part 2?

[heironymouspasparagus]

I think we need to buy the Tulsa Club Building, bring it back to its former glory, or better, and turn it into a Tulsa Art Deco Museum, as part of any new initiative.

We could lease out the grand ballroom to a restaurateur to help raise money, have great events there, use several floors for the museum, activate the street levels with a museum gift shop and an art deco themed cafe, and perhaps also rent out a few of the other floors for office space to help the museum be self sustaining.  

I could turn that building into a major attraction in downtown, and I wouldn't need or want any parking. I would actually like to turn one of the floors into a Disney type, slow, look at the wonderful scenery, type rides (The Story of Art Deco", Worlds fairs, Metropolis, the movies, etc.) We could partner with the Tulsa Foundation for Architecture. Have classroom spaces, etc. etc.

This building is going to be so hard to rehab without the financial help of someone who really loves the building.  

Careful with that kind of thought!!  People are gonna think you are crazy, too!!

If it works out for you, let me know.  I would contribute to that effort! 


Maybe you could have a PBS style fundraising event - get on one of the many public access channels on cable... oh, wait...  Well, maybe some other type of fundraiser.

[carltonplace]

It's Dewey's grand reelection plans of "water in river, cops in street, no burning cell phones in pocket", this is the dunce that wanted to give $300 million to a bankrupt American for no good reason and zero guarantees.  He forced more millions in the last streets bond issue for the Gilcrease highway to nowhere (where he personally owns land) and tried to kill a sidewalk on Riverside nearly the whole city wanted that his landlord disliked.

Dewey wants a vote in the fall which means projects need to be chosen, scoped and priced by the summer and it's March right now. The timeline for starting public input for a fall vote would be last fall. I would peg his intended public input at zero.

I'm going to put on my Dewey Vision goggles here and guess  that there will no real downtown improvements in this plan. It's going be .2% permanent fund to Cops, $200 million to dams, something at the zoo, $5 million for downtown housing, his stupid taco truck park on the west bank and money to fix the roads at 61st by the new outlet mall. Bing, done, it's Dewey Vision2030.

Maybe the city council can put some meat in any plans and derail the Dewey Express but I am not hopeful.

Like. How does water in the river with dams at the proposed locations help create development in Tulsa? It doesn't. This is a dumb plan that benefits Jenks.

[Jeff P]

We bring in $355M in sales taxes, and spend $175M on police and fire.

The remaining, plus other funds, fund road maintenance, parks, streetlights, code enforcement, lawn mowing, planning, economic development, water, sewer, trash,

So... forgive me, but can you (or anyone) supply some context for these figures for those of us who aren't as familiar with municipal financing?

Is it unusual that police and fire would take up roughly 50% of the city budget, or is that normal?  It seems to me that those are rather large expenses, so it may be normal, but I don't know.

[TeeDub]

So... forgive me, but can you (or anyone) supply some context for these figures for those of us who aren't as familiar with municipal financing?

Is it unusual that police and fire would take up roughly 50% of the city budget, or is that normal?  It seems to me that those are rather large expenses, so it may be normal, but I don't know.

This is Texas, but apparently 50% is normal.
http://www.tml.org/HCW/HowCitiesWork.pdf

[swake]

Like. How does water in the river with dams at the proposed locations help create development in Tulsa? It doesn't. This is a dumb plan that benefits Jenks.

I'm for water in the river, with each city and the Creek Nation paying their share. What I am against is the permanent public safety funding. There are other ways to do that, like a fire district paid with property taxes. And I don't like Dewey's complete lack of focus on downtown.

[swake]

This is Texas, but apparently 50% is normal.
http://www.tml.org/HCW/HowCitiesWork.pdf

That's going to vary a lot state by state, in many states the city runs the schools, and sometimes welfare programs.

[PonderInc]

What is the purpose of water in the river? What's the larger goal? Is the return on investment simply beauty? (I'm ok with this, but I doubt that's what others are thinking.) I'm just curious since I'm opposed to anything that will encourage any more suburban-style commercial development along the River.

Obviously I appreciate beauty and I treasure the River parks. If we have a careful plan for high quality, human-scale, walk/bike/transit oriented development adjacent to the river that wouldn't denigrate the public space, I'm in!

My fear is that we'll get water (assuming it rains some day), quickly followed by thoughtless commercial developments that are 2/3 asphalt. If we're careful, we could get destinations that connect neighborhoods to the river and accentuate the public space. (Should be required in exchange for our public investment.) If we're not careful, we'll get more 71st street crap.

Seems like there's a new study / plan for the river every couple years. What's the latest?

[Conan71]

What is the purpose of water in the river? What's the larger goal? Is the return on investment simply beauty? (I'm ok with this, but I doubt that's what others are thinking.) I'm just curious since I'm opposed to anything that will encourage any more suburban-style commercial development along the River.

Obviously I appreciate beauty and I treasure the River parks. If we have a careful plan for high quality, human-scale, walk/bike/transit oriented development adjacent to the river that wouldn't denigrate the public space, I'm in!

My fear is that we'll get water (assuming it rains some day), quickly followed by thoughtless commercial developments that are 2/3 asphalt. If we're careful, we could get destinations that connect neighborhoods to the river and accentuate the public space. (Should be required in exchange for our public investment.) If we're not careful, we'll get more 71st street crap.

Seems like there's a new study / plan for the river every couple years. What's the latest?

http://www.incog.org/Community_Economic_Development/River_Documents/Phase%20II%20Web%20Powerpoint.pdf

This is the last one I know of.

[ZYX]

What is the purpose of water in the river? What's the larger goal? Is the return on investment simply beauty? (I'm ok with this, but I doubt that's what others are thinking.) I'm just curious since I'm opposed to anything that will encourage any more suburban-style commercial development along the River.

Obviously I appreciate beauty and I treasure the River parks. If we have a careful plan for high quality, human-scale, walk/bike/transit oriented development adjacent to the river that wouldn't denigrate the public space, I'm in!

My fear is that we'll get water (assuming it rains some day), quickly followed by thoughtless commercial developments that are 2/3 asphalt. If we're careful, we could get destinations that connect neighborhoods to the river and accentuate the public space. (Should be required in exchange for our public investment.) If we're not careful, we'll get more 71st street crap.

Seems like there's a new study / plan for the river every couple years. What's the latest?

My thoughts almost exactly. There is no point in incentivizing development that is just like what we have everywhere else, only that it's on the river. What's the point of having river development of we don't make sure that it interacts with the river and the neighborhoods around it?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Wow!  Calls for amphitheaters...

Enhanced preservation of natural resources.  In contrast to Riverfront oriented retail shops and restaurants.  (Wasn't that tried already?)

Improved connections to downtown/neighborhoods.

Looks like someone wants to put some residential on the refinery sites.  Just where I want to live!

I hope there is some updating...

[PonderInc]

Yeah, I don't think we need a minor league baseball stadium by Zink Lake anymore.

So the latest plan was 2005?  Definitely should update the plan before voting on funding this thing.

[Vision 2025]

Yeah, I don't think we need a minor league baseball stadium by Zink Lake anymore.

So the latest plan was 2005?  Definitely should update the plan before voting on funding this thing.

No, that is the original River Vision Plan, there are two updates with the later technical documents being updated.  Take a look here http://riverprojectstulsa.info/ Essentially, the projects identified in the Project Management Plan (PMP) are being further defined/refined in the engineering process with updated cost estimating that can be used in developing what may be proposed by elected officials.

[TheArtist]

No, that is the original River Vision Plan.

So Vision, what is this "extension" about?  Is it just extending certain items on the original Vision, like having more money for the dams and thats pretty much it?  Or will this have other items in it, like perhaps making a pitch to have an Art Deco Museum proposal put in there?

[sgrizzle]

So Vision, what is this "extension" about?  Is it just extending certain items on the original Vision, like having more money for the dams and thats pretty much it?  Or will this have other items in it, like perhaps making a pitch to have an Art Deco Museum proposal put in there?

Not that you're partial

[Vision 2025]

Not that you're partial

Yes, as an implementer, I'm partial to good proposals.  That said, and presently, other than supervising bringing the low water dam designs, cost models and permitting further forward I am not involved in the project formulation so I would be speculating to answer at this time.  Personally, I truly hope there is a public idea solicitation as Vision 2025's development included.