2009: The Year in Hate

[pmcalk]

Doesn't guest worker = work visa?

Yet again, I know alot of us here do NOT have any problems with legal immigration.  I have to defend this position almost daily it seems when we talk about it at work.  A lot of my fellow 'lefties' blur the line between illegal/undocumented and legal immigrants.

I'll say this one last time, then I'm done on the subject.

GET RIGHT WITH THE LAW OR GET OUT!

I don't necessarily disagree with you.  But I think that you have a false sense of how the majority of "illegals" got here.  They didn't all creep accross the border.  A significant number came over here legally, then let their visa expire.  Some don't understand that they are no longer legal.


A woman whom I know came over here legally from Honduras.  She let her visa expire, mostly because she didn't have the $2000 an attorney was going to charge her to reapply.  After a couple of years, she saved enough, and followed through on her visa.  Unfortunately, she has two children, and during the wait, her oldest turned 18.  She was unaware that her visa no longer covered her son since he was 18.  He was stopped for a broken tail light; his status was checked; and he was deported. 

It is easy to say "deport all the illegals."  When you see it tear apart families, you realize it isn't always so black and white.

[DolfanBob]

Waterboy. That is a amazing story. One that im sure rings true.
As I read it, I could not help but think of the comparison to Schindlers List. Where they are lining up the prisoners and looking them over, checking their teeth, age, height, weight etc, etc.
Doesnt seem that we have advanced to much from that by what you were told. Kind of sad.
Slave labor by any means is wrong no matter what era that it is happening.

[Conan71]

I don't necessarily disagree with you.  But I think that you have a false sense of how the majority of "illegals" got here.  They didn't all creep accross the border.  A significant number came over here legally, then let their visa expire.  Some don't understand that they are no longer legal.


A woman whom I know came over here legally from Honduras.  She let her visa expire, mostly because she didn't have the $2000 an attorney was going to charge her to reapply.  After a couple of years, she saved enough, and followed through on her visa.  Unfortunately, she has two children, and during the wait, her oldest turned 18.  She was unaware that her visa no longer covered her son since he was 18.  He was stopped for a broken tail light; his status was checked; and he was deported. 

It is easy to say "deport all the illegals."  When you see it tear apart families, you realize it isn't always so black and white.

And you know what us citizens are told: "Ignorance of the law is no excuse".

We all have our heart-rending stories of families torn apart by immigration laws.  It still doesn't change the fact that there are repercussions for those who break and flaunt the laws, and unfortunately people drag their kids into that mess.

[Hoss]

I don't necessarily disagree with you.  But I think that you have a false sense of how the majority of "illegals" got here.  They didn't all creep accross the border.  A significant number came over here legally, then let their visa expire.  Some don't understand that they are no longer legal.


A woman whom I know came over here legally from Honduras.  She let her visa expire, mostly because she didn't have the $2000 an attorney was going to charge her to reapply.  After a couple of years, she saved enough, and followed through on her visa.  Unfortunately, she has two children, and during the wait, her oldest turned 18.  She was unaware that her visa no longer covered her son since he was 18.  He was stopped for a broken tail light; his status was checked; and he was deported. 

It is easy to say "deport all the illegals."  When you see it tear apart families, you realize it isn't always so black and white.

Do you think for one second that other countries would look at the status of your children before deporting you?  Likely not.

I don't think I'm insensitive, but as Conan alluded to, ignorance of the law is no excuse.  If you've lived here long enough to let your visa expire, you should know a little bit about the law of the land, especially when it comes to immigration law.  And please, if you're going to live here, at least make the attempt to learn the language we speak.  Other countries would ask the same of you if you moved there.

[waterboy]

So, now our standards are dependent on how other countries treat their illegals? Interesting. How low will we go?

Ignorance of the laws. You must love the tax code and the bankruptcy codes. That old phrase is great to use if you're a cop, a judge or a prosecuting attorney and it gets lawyers a steady stream of business. They get elected and write the laws with help from their corporate masters, then they later get to use that phrase on the rest of us.

These are lame solutions. Can't anyone else come up with something better than these?

[guido911]

Ignorance of the laws. You must love the tax code and the bankruptcy codes. That old phrase is great to use if you're a cop, a judge or a prosecuting attorney and it gets lawyers a steady stream of business. They get elected and write the laws with help from their corporate masters, then they later get to use that phrase on the rest of us.

These are lame solutions. Can't anyone else come up with something better than these?

You cannot be serious. Are you comparing the complexity of the U.S. tax code to whether a person knows that a country they were not born in is there legally? You must really think the illegals are dumbasses or something.

[guido911]

Perhaps thats where you could start. Compete with these unscrupulous labor finders by making a better offer. Maybe forming a foundation, made up of local businesses who suffer from unfair labor practices. They could make a visible upfront offer of amnesty for any illegal. The immigrants can then be part of a pool of workers that can choose to work towards citizenship/guest worker status with a portion of any wages going to the foundation.  Or the foundation could pay for transportation to their homeland.

Got it. Reward those persons whose mere presence in this country is illegal with citizenship.

[Conan71]

Got it. Reward those persons whose mere presence in this country is illegal with citizenship.

Pretty amazing we expect to strip away natural-born citizens rights when they commit a crime, yet we want to give carte-blanche to people who were breaking the law the moment they entered the country.  What amazing logic!

[rwarn17588]

Pretty amazing we expect to strip away natural-born citizens rights when they commit a crime, yet we want to give carte-blanche to people who were breaking the law the moment they entered the country.  What amazing logic!

So what do we do about the problem?

This country, under numerous presidents of differing political parties, has given tacit approval to illegal immigration from Mexico for decades. The genie has been long out of the bottle, and can't be put back in.

By conservative counts, there are 10 million here. What do you do about it? Fines? Mass deportations? What's the less-awful answer?

[RecycleMichael]

I still say we invade Mexico with US troops. Bring the soldiers to a war closer than the Middle East and let them fight in a place where a weekend pass gets them to Texas or California.

Mexico has oil and beaches, too.

Then we can make Mexican citizens legal American residents, get them paying income taxes, and make a bunch of new states. Just think of the tremendous investment opportunities and how much better our soccer teams will play. 

There will also be cost-savings because building a wall on our new southern border will be easier between us and Guatemaula.

[Red Arrow]

RM

Let's see...  much of Mexico is already so bad that "they" want to come here and you want to invade and take it over?  Trying to create the US/Mexican Civil War?  You trying to hurry up the requirement to learn Spanish?

[pmcalk]

And you know what us citizens are told: "Ignorance of the law is no excuse".

We all have our heart-rending stories of families torn apart by immigration laws.  It still doesn't change the fact that there are repercussions for those who break and flaunt the laws, and unfortunately people drag their kids into that mess.

Perhaps you misunderstood.  She did not enter this country illegally.  She came over legally in 1998 when her country and her home were destroyed by Hurricane Mitch.  She came to the US with absolutely nothing, and began working right away making money the only way she could--cleaning houses.  Yes, by all means, ignorance of the law is no excuse, and I suppose her first priority should have been to head down to the local law library and read up on immigration laws.  Unfortunately, she was just too busy finding a place to live and feeding her family.  And I guess it's her own fault for dragging her kids to the US with her.  She should have left them in Hounduras to starve, or demanded that her 18 year old son, who was still in high school, come up with his own $2000.

While the principal of "ignorance of the law" applies to everyone, citizens at least are granted the right to an attorney.  Technically, my friend was not illegal, because Hondurans that came in 1998 were granted Temporary Protected Status (which was extended several times), and had the right to remain in the US.  It was simply a matter of filling out the right paper work--if she could have afforded an attorney, she would have known that.

[Red Arrow]

When I was a kid I used to see public service spots on the TV reminding (legal) aliens to register at the Post Office each January.  Maybe we need to go back to something as simple as that.  If there are other requirements for an individual, the requirements should show up at that time.  As far as I know, no lawyers required.

[waterboy]

You cannot be serious. Are you comparing the complexity of the U.S. tax code to whether a person knows that a country they were not born in is there legally? You must really think the illegals are dumbasses or something.

Yes, and no. It is relative though. Some of them are quite dumbass while others seem to fit right in hereabouts.

[waterboy]

Got it. Reward those persons whose mere presence in this country is illegal with citizenship.

Creative Solutions from Guido:
     1. Misunderstand the proposal
     2. Offer no other solution