Tulsa Police Chief Talks About Cuts

[patric]

Street crimes units and the Special investigation division are totally proactive and hunt the worst criminals in the area. They arrest armed and dangerous people before they can harm people.

Public complaints, abuse of power and bad publicity took down a Street Crimes (aka "Vice Squad") for a while some years back.  They called it "budget cuts" to save face, but when you think about it, there are only so many prostitution stings and bar raids you can do before you max out your purpose.

...And unless im mistaken there is still an ongoing criminal investigation of corruption into the Special Investigations Division that may result in some staff changes.
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=14539.0

Their budgets are not public record, are they?

The union just serves to negotiate out contract clauses like suspensions and avoid drug testing.

Your still talking about sports unions, right? 

[MH2010]

I've been on the Tulsa police department for 10 years. At no time in the past ten years has public complaints, abuse of power and bad publicity taken down any street crime unit. Prostitution stings and bar raids are only a small part of what Street crimes units do. 

The grand jury is focusing on an ATF agent. You should know that.

[patric]

At no time in the past ten years has public complaints, abuse of power and bad publicity taken down any street crime unit. Prostitution stings and bar raids are only a small part of what Street crimes units do. 

Go back a bit further, when there was more than one Street Crimes unit. 

The grand jury is focusing on an ATF agent. You should know that.

"Prosecutors appear to be focusing on several Tulsa police officers assigned to the Special Investigations Division. Additionally, an agent either currently or formerly employed with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is a target of the probe, sources said."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20091101_11_A1_Severa232734

Im sure the Whirled appreciates the update.

[MH2010]

There have always been three street crimes units. One for each uniformed division. At least for the last ten years. They all were disbanded a few years ago because of manpower issues and then brought back. Not for the reasons you talked about.

The World reporter is getting his info from mainly defense attorneys.  We will see in a few weeks how it will play out though.

The latest rumor to go around it that a former Tulsa Assistant District Attorney was going to be indicted also.  

These rumors will run rampant until the Grand Jury is over. You and I both know that a Grand Jury is the most one sided, unfair thing in the justice system.

[rwarn17588]

You and I both know that a Grand Jury is the most one sided, unfair thing in the justice system.

Compared to what?

[MH2010]

Unfair is really a subjective term so I'll just stick with one sided.  Any other court room criminal justice procedure that I know of.  

In a Grand Jury, there is no "defense". It's  the procecutor and the grand jury.  No other side is being told. The procecutor has total control over what is being presented. Witnesses can not have their lawyer present while being questioned in the Grand Jury. Their lawyer can wait outside and they can talk to them during breaks but not during session.  Also, you can't refuse to testify before the Grand Jury.  Everyone must get on the stand. You have a right not to incriminate yourself but that is it.

[RecycleMichael]

'Rank and file' is simply semantics.  These positions are promoted from within the department.  According to the Tulsa World City Employee database, the following positions classified as other than 'police officer' are:

LARSEN, DENNIS L POLICE DEPUTY CHIEF FOP $104,285.76
WEBSTER, ALVIN D POLICE DEPUTY CHIEF FOP $104,285.76
MCCRORY, MARK D POLICE DEPUTY CHIEF FOP $110,626.32
PALMER, RONALD CHIEF OF POLICE $165,000.00  
SMITH JR, GEORGE E POLICE INFO RESOUR MANAGE $97,053.84

There are 7 ranked as POLICE MAJOR $93,617.76
There are 2 ranked as POLICE MAJOR $88,252.08
There are 23 ranked as POLICE CAPTAIN $82,235.28
There are 2 ranked as POLICE CAPTAIN $77,521.92
There are 62 ranked as POLICE SERGEANT $71,002.32
HANNON, LORI R POLICE & FIRE TESTING COO $68,930.64
There are 64 ranked as POLICE CORPORAL $67,621.20
There are 5 ranked as POLICE SERGEANT $66,932.88
There are 15 ranked as POLICE SERGEANT $64,358.40
There are 4 ranked as POLICE CORPORAL $61,467.36

Essentially 500 or 61.8% out of the assumed force of 808 sworn officers make over $60,954.96/year.  

I went to Military.com website to look up what we pay of Army officers on active duty...

http://www.military.com/military/benefits/0,15465,2010-House-Proposed-Military-Pay,00.html

Commissioned officers on active duty with less than two years experience make $33,000 per year.

[Conan71]

RM- are you compairing military officer pay with that of patrolmen or that of management in the TPD like Sergeant, Corporal, Captain, Major ranks?

Active duty officers also have room and board either taken care of or a stipend for it which is not included in that salary figure.  O-1 to O-8 pay grades for under 2 years service range from $2655/month to $9090/month.

http://www.army.com/money/payrates.html

[TeeDub]

Really?  Is this so bad?

Police Chief Ron Palmer says the possible $3.4 million in cuts to the police department would gut the department, setting it back to 1980 staffing levels with 2010 crime rates. 

Population in 1980:         360,919
Population in 2007 (est):  385,635

I can't say that it bothers me much...   Although I have a hard time believing that there isn't some dead weight (even in the police department) to cut first.


http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=11770169

[patric]

Really?  Is this so bad?

Police Chief Ron Palmer says the possible $3.4 million in cuts to the police department would gut the department, setting it back to 1980 staffing levels with 2010 crime rates. 

Population in 1980:         360,919
Population in 2007 (est):  385,635

I can't say that it bothers me much...   Although I have a hard time believing that there isn't some dead weight (even in the police department) to cut first.

It all depends on what is "enough" police.
My guess would be that if you doubled the size of the force tomorrow, it would not be "enough".

BTW, The Whirled had an interesting look at the Mayor's strategy:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/blogs/weblog.aspx?column_id=30#7247

[Conan71]

Really?  Is this so bad?

Police Chief Ron Palmer says the possible $3.4 million in cuts to the police department would gut the department, setting it back to 1980 staffing levels with 2010 crime rates. 

Population in 1980:         360,919
Population in 2007 (est):  385,635

I can't say that it bothers me much...   Although I have a hard time believing that there isn't some dead weight (even in the police department) to cut first.


http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=11770169

The "2010 crime rates." is troubling to me.  I have no idea how they differ, but I assume Chief Palmer knows what he is talking about.

I'd like to see along with that quip though what kind of response rates we had back then and what kind of dilligence we were getting on property crimes that so many people are complaining about a lack of now.  Are we getting less service out of a larger work force?  I have no idea what the answer is to that but would love to know it.  People performing their jobs efficiently is a major key here, just like all other city departments need to examine.

[patric]

Did anyone notice the DOT highway emergency sign on the BA expressway westbound near the KVOO building?
It's one of those yellow electronic signs used to warn of construction, but this one was programmed to say "SUPPORT TFD"

[YoungTulsan]

Could a coalition of private businesses form a network of supplemental income jobs for TPD suffering from wage cuts?   I know off-duty officers often earn extra $ by providing security at businesses especially during the evening and night.  It is much better to have an off-duty for security than a rent-a-cop surely.

Has anyone done the math on how much money is just given away by cutting lose 150 (or whatever the exact number thrown around it) officers and handing them over to places like Dallas?  Surely the cost to train one officer is at least 5 figures.  Multiply that times the number let go.

[Breadburner]

I wonder how much revenue the average officer bring in per yer....You would think enough to cover their salary...

[tulsa_fan]

Has anyone done the math on how much money is just given away by cutting lose 150 (or whatever the exact number thrown around it) officers and handing them over to places like Dallas?  Surely the cost to train one officer is at least 5 figures.  Multiply that times the number let go.

I think that is a very valid point, not only does the city lose the investment of training these officers (who will leave, they won't get hired back) and I also think there is a loss of revenue.  Again, these officers will leave the area and you lose the tax base of 100+ families. 

I was also told by someone in high upper management, that police department spends between 300 - 400k in overtime money supporting the events at the BOK, they were told by Taylor they must and the BOK refuses to add a service charge on the tickets.  I know the tickets are already really expensive, but really, if you are going to $150 for a ticket, you won't pay $151?  Why is the Police Department obsorbing the cost, when they are facing layoffs?  The other venues downtown are required to pay for their own security and traffic control.

The point being, maybe there is a need for fewer supervisors but that isn't going to happen overnight.  There are things they city can do to help this situation, instead of putting it all on the union's shoulder, especially when I haven't seen Bartlett providing options other than cut cut cut.