Tulsa Police Chief Talks About Cuts

[shadows]

Seems it is back to who is telling the story.   Seems it was reported that if the revenue was restored then the wage cut would be revisited.  There is a whale of difference to restore and revisit.

I must have missed it where the council was given any authority to instruct the mayor to do anything.  Their authority is limited to only approving or disapproving what the mayors does.   So many citizens have forgotten that the amendments they voted for was a Strong Mayor-Weak Council.  The mayor has only followed the dictates of the voters.    

[rwarn17588]

I find it supremely ironic that the two TPD officers who regularly post on this forum proclaim themselves as conservative, yet cry loud and hard when the mayor actually does such conservative things as 1) blunting the strength of a union; 2) cutting government spending; which in turn 3) reduces the size of government.

If you're going to espouse something, watch what you wish for ...

[Rico]

" this little sandbox skirmish."

Rather a benign way of looking at the whole matter...

Considering; that the outcome of this whole affair will be measured partially in lives lost, damaged, or irreversibly altered.

Let's plan to revisit this in 6 to 9 months and sample a small portion of the concoction as it matures and becomes the drink of tomorrows youth.

sorry... shadow man, if this is not a complimentary likeness to the messages you have been known to send.

[Wilbur]

Just a few of the huge differences between the police and fire concession packages:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20100201_11_0_Cityof875132

[sgrizzle]

Just a few of the huge differences between the police and fire concession packages:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20100201_11_0_Cityof875132

Apparently we have extremely different definitions of huge. I read the article and listened to Phil Evans this morning.

It effects some retirement/pension funding. At the end of the day, the officers check is the same size on either plan So if both plans end up with the same $ amount out of your check and those checks go to the same # of people as before the change, I'd say the "huge" parts are the same.

[RecycleMichael]

Apparently we have extremely different definitions of huge.

I completely agree. The firefighters now put more of their own money toward retirement for an equal amount of vacation pay. They also agreed to pay more for their cost of health insurance in exchange for less salary cuts.

It seems quite a wash.

I believe what really happened is that the police union finally realized they were losing the public relations battle and the firefighters were now seen as the good guys. It was probably compounded by the failure of all these "other cities who were recruiting Tulsa policemen" to actually offer any of them jobs.

The public turns on you and then plan B doesn't happen and suddenly the cops want to meet with the Mayor again. If I were Bartlett, I would make them kneal down and kiss my shoes at the start of the meeting.

[shadows]

Not withstanding the plea of the effect the job losses will have on many families in this  money crunching recession, affecting those who were least able to take the blunt on mismanagement and putting their trust in contracting with management, as a union body, are asking for another chance to open negotiations, at the public table this time.  Those who would be less effected by cutting salaries are still retaining the costly salaries they are accustom to.  If the reduction was on the higher paid salaries of the nonproductive needed city employees it might lower the numbers of hungry people as reported in the TW today.

Tulsa may soon realize that as a functioning society, in order to survive, it must equalize the conditions on how all city and private employees are compensated.  We should have learned by the public works scandal that was closed quickly by the admission of guilt and the whistle blower given prison time for blowing the whistle.  That taught him a lesson on how things are done in Tulsa. 

[TURobY]

Tulsa may soon realize that as a functioning society, in order to survive, it must equalize the conditions on how all city and private employees are compensated.

Why are we compensating city and private employees? We could just replace them with robots.

[Red Arrow]

Why are we compensating city and private employees? We could just replace them with robots.

But then you would have to pay someone to maintain the robots.

Can't win.

[TURobY]

But then you would have to pay someone to maintain the robots.

Can't win.

Robots will repair robots.

[patric]

I believe what really happened is that the police union finally realized they were losing the public relations battle and the firefighters were now seen as the good guys.

Bingo!
In the end most people will remember that the Fire Department took action to make sacrifices on behalf of the citizens from the start, while the FOP just circled the wagons and acted like drama queens.

[buckeye]

" this little sandbox skirmish."

Rather a jaded and sardonic way of looking at the whole matter...

...had to fix that up a little for you.

[shadows]

Why are we compensating city and private employees? We could just replace them with robots.

I thought they already have started replacing many workers and voters with robots or plain zombies because of the dumb things going on. 

[Wilbur]

I completely agree. The firefighters now put more of their own money toward retirement for an equal amount of vacation pay. They also agreed to pay more for their cost of health insurance in exchange for less salary cuts.

It seems quite a wash.

I believe what really happened is that the police union finally realized they were losing the public relations battle and the firefighters were now seen as the good guys. It was probably compounded by the failure of all these "other cities who were recruiting Tulsa policemen" to actually offer any of them jobs.

The public turns on you and then plan B doesn't happen and suddenly the cops want to meet with the Mayor again. If I were Bartlett, I would make them kneal down and kiss my shoes at the start of the meeting.

WOW!

I'm glad you deal with my trash and not my accounting.  I'll hope you don't deal with your household accounting either.

I totally agree, the firefighters' paycheck will lower to a similar amount of a police officers under the deals as presented.  But not one single penny of the firefighters' cuts affects their pensions, where most of the police cuts affect their pensions.  The effect on my pension alone is well over $100,000.  You want me to pay the equal amount the firefighters pay, then present the same package for a vote.

And, lets discuss furloughs...  they don't save the city a single penny, it just defers costs to later years.  In order to retire, a police officer/firefighter has to work so many years, which breaks down to so many days.  If you furlough that employee 8 days, he/she has to work 8 days longer before being able to retire.  That's 8 more days on the city payroll.  Make them furlough 16 days and that's simply 16 more days you pay that employee before they can retire.  Assuming that employee is making more in salary when they are closer to retirement, you are actually paying the employee more down the road then you are saving today.

[RecycleMichael]

WOW!

But not one single penny of the firefighters' cuts affects their pensions, where most of the police cuts affect their pensions.  The effect on my pension alone is well over $100,000. 

Then why doesn't your union say it so plainly? I have to say your spokespeople have done a terrible job presenting your side of the discussion and the dozens of police officers who comment on the Tulsa World website haven't helped.

I stand by my statement. The public has turned on the police union. We had stories over and over again of whining saying the Mayor was not being fair and you guys all had so many other job offers.

By the way, I heard Terry Simonson say on the radio that you guys had essentially the same offer. The police turned down the same deal as the firefighters, not the administration.