Rush Limbaugh HEARTS status quo healthcare

[USRufnex]

Pretty much the only industry left that offers instant, unconditional credit.  

You ever go to the doctor's office and leave your heath insurance card at home?
Try it sometime.

When I went to St Francis Imaging, they asked for $500 right then and there.  They had my BC/BS card in front of them.......

You realize that ER's have collections depts, don't you?
And they charge a TON of money if you don't have insurance or medicare negotiating on your behalf.
You realize we have a big problem in this country with citizens who are forced into medical bankruptcies, don't you?

What do you want ER's to do?  Deny someone care who's been in a car accident/shooting, etc. because the "paying people" should go first?

Do you really want that for our country?

Hyperbole?  Really?

TENS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS CANNOT AFFORD HEALTHCARE BECAUSE IT'S TIED TO THEIR EMPLOYER.
No job?  Don't get sick.

That's not hyperbole.
That's FACT.

[USRufnex]

Tens of millions don't go to the hospital because they have chest pains, reeeeeaaaaally?

Do hyperbole much?  Exaggerate lately?

You think I'm going to be thinking about deductible and co-pays if it feels like an anvil landed on my chest? F*ck no.

No, I am not exaggerating, Mr. Head-in-the-sand.

If you had chest pains, how bad were they?
Did Rush think he was having a heart attack?
Or was he just being a wuss?

As a HUMAN BEING, I understand that if I had chest pains but didn't feel like "an anvil landed on my chest," I wouldn't go to a doctor if I didn't have insurance.  Millions of Americans have had to go through these kinds of problems.....

Why?  Because if you are uninsured, they ask you to give them money now, and will take everything you have later.

So, you wait until it feels like "an anvil landed on my chest," then you go to the emergency room.
Then the hospital charges you more money than you could possibly pay.... then you declare bankruptcy and nobody gets any money..... nobody.  That's the status quo if we do nothing.....

There, feel better now?   

[Conan71]

From what I can gather, the "negotiating down" process is broken.  In some markets a single insurer holds a virtual monopoly on coverage, while in other markets two or more insurers share -- and possibly collude -- on pricing. I know I've been surprised to find out how few players there are in insurance markets are across the country, including in Oklahoma. Lack of competition alone could account for some of it.   

Now wait, I thought the argument was that too many insurers raises the cost of claims processing because of differing paperwork for too many insurers.  Insurance companies lose money on claims.  They aren't going to collude to raise claim prices, if anything they want to pay out less so they will negotiate lower rates. 

Does anyone have a clue exactly what the government thinks it is going to achieve that is one iota different than the system is now?

We have had previous discussions on the lower cost of healthcare as a percent of GDP in other countries (ergo lower equipment costs, lower drug costs, lower procedure costs) before.  I've posited that the U.S. subsidizes lower cost healthcare for the rest of the world by the higher rates we do pay for R & D, etc. plus a more proactive approach to health in other countries, and that it's not necessarily a socialized approach which has made it less of an expenditure for other countries.  After reading the NPR excerpt Swake posted, that pretty much makes my assumption that the U.S. medical consumer is helping to subsidize lower equipment costs for other countries.  How to make other countries shoulder their fair share of the cost is beyond me, but this is something to consider rather than a knee-jerk reaction that our government should just take over HC and arbitrarily tell free-market companies what they should be allowed to make on their goods and services.

[USRufnex]

"...a knee-jerk reaction that our government should just take over HC and arbitrarily tell free-market companies what they should be allowed to make on their goods and services."

Government isn't "taking over healthcare."
Heck, we won't even get a watered down "public option."

Hyperbole much?  

[Conan71]

You ever go to the doctor's office and leave your heath insurance card at home?
Try it sometime.

When I went to St Francis Imaging, they asked for $500 right then and there.  They had my BC/BS card in front of them.......

You realize that ER's have collections depts, don't you?
And they charge a TON of money if you don't have insurance or medicare negotiating on your behalf.
You realize we have a big problem in this country with citizens who are forced into medical bankruptcies, don't you?

What do you want ER's to do?  Deny someone care who's been in a car accident/shooting, etc. because the "paying people" should go first?

Do you really want that for our country?

Hyperbole?  Really?

TENS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS CANNOT AFFORD HEALTHCARE BECAUSE IT'S TIED TO THEIR EMPLOYER.
No job?  Don't get sick.

That's not hyperbole.
That's FACT.

Yes, HYPERBOLE. And outright LIES!!!

The FACT is that federal law MANDATES emergency room care for those who CANNOT PAY FOR IT!!!!  People in car accidents, experiencing chest pain, or a gunshot wound do not go unseen, THEY GO TO THE FRONT OF THE LINE!!!

Health care facilities are remunerated for those who cannot pay by charging the paying public a higher rate for their healthcare and tax write-offs on bad debt.

REALITY DENIER!!!

I've been to the ER with chest/abdominal pain at 4am (to this day they still have no idea what it was all about).  They sure as hell weren't asking me to reach for my checkbook nor concerned with who my insurance company was until they knew I wasn't going to crash on them.  Where do you get this crap? Daily Koz?

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!!

[USRufnex]

Helllooooooo.

When you have an emergency, you can get EMERGENCY CARE.

Why else do you think people go to an urban hospital and "pretend" to have an emergency?

Per usual, you argue all over the map, yet REFUSE TO SUPPORT ANY DEM EFFORT TO REFORM THE SYSTEM.

Typical partisan BS from you Conan.

You have the nerve to believe that "preventative care" is something that involves exercise and diet, yet in this kind of system Mr Limbaugh should be charged out the wazoo for insurance because he's FAT and smokes CIGARS.... talk about a pre-existing condition....

Do you just hate the fat, middle-aged poor men and women with diabetes because you've judged them unfit for healthcare?

If they seek medical care BEFORE they have a catastrophe, they might be put on a better diet or have a problem diagnosed BEFORE it becomes an emergency, costs the hospital more $$$, the doctors more $$$, and the patient more $$$ they can't even pay..... then you've ruined their financial life with a bankruptcy.... EVERYBODY LOSES!.....

Status quo is no longer unacceptable.

[Conan71]

".... and he says people should go to the hospital the first time they have chest pains.  Well, duh.

That's the problem.  Tens of millions of Americans can't do that.... or don't do that..... because they're in fear of how much their doctor bills will run."

Who is arguing all over the map??

Do they or don't they go to the ER??

Have fun talking to yourself.

[nathanm]

I've been to the ER with chest/abdominal pain at 4am (to this day they still have no idea what it was all about).  They sure as hell weren't asking me to reach for my checkbook nor concerned with who my insurance company was until they knew I wasn't going to crash on them.  Where do you get this crap? Daily Koz?

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!!

I once had to take a roommate to the ER when he had a spontaneous pneumothorax. They looked at him, decided he wasn't having a heart attack, and promptly directed him to the money desk and asked him how he would be paying.

They couldn't have refused him treatment, as it is a potentially life threatening condition, but that's no solution. The hospitals are losing money thanks to declining insurance payouts and more bad debt thanks to the high unemployment rate. It's too expensive to force this cost onto hospitals without compensation and not do anything to address medical problems in the indigent before they become ER-worthy.

[USRufnex]

".... and he says people should go to the hospital the first time they have chest pains.  Well, duh.

That's the problem.  Tens of millions of Americans can't do that.... or don't do that..... because they're in fear of how much their doctor bills will run."

Who is arguing all over the map??

Do they or don't they go to the ER??

Have fun talking to yourself.

They don't go to the ER, because "chest pains" don't mean the same thing to everyone.
You make this argument because you've decided to find something I wrote to TRY to exploit.

I've had chest pains.  In my 30s.  I assumed it was acid reflux.  I didn't have insurance, so I didn't go to the doctor.  Now that I no longer sing opera, I have a "real job" that offers me the option to go to the doctor without having to pay a bill of at least $300 bucks for a 15-minute office visit to a doctor who doesn't really do anything.... or I guess I coulda gone to the ER.....  

But if my story is ever told, you'd accuse liberals of "exploiting it."

You use the same story with my cancer when you insist that me and people like me have these stories exploited by DailyKOS, etc... then, your buddy Gweed acts like I'm trying to use my disease to win an argument....

Geez.
Have fun playing with yourselves.... dittoheads.

[USRufnex]

I once had to take a roommate to the ER when he had a spontaneous pneumothorax. They looked at him, decided he wasn't having a heart attack, and promptly directed him to the money desk and asked him how he would be paying.

Yep.  I remember those same stories when I was in college.
Took more than one person to the hospital and had to watch that song-and-dance.

Health care reform bill could aid 237,000 Utahns
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705351960/Report-Health-reform-would-help-uninsured-Utahns.html?linkTrack=rss-30

[guido911]

I once had to take a roommate to the ER when he had a spontaneous pneumothorax. They looked at him, decided he wasn't having a heart attack, and promptly directed him to the money desk and asked him how he would be paying.

Are you serious? The hospital actually asked your roommate how he was going to pay for its professional medical services? Oh, the horror!

As for emergency rooms losing money, your list omits the damage illegal aliens have wreaked by using these medical assets as their personal primary clinic (how many ers and trauma centers have closed because of the EMTALA mandates), or the mass numbers of "patients" using the er as a narcotic dispensary, or the billions doctors spend practicing defensive medicine to ward off predatory personal injury lawyers (although there is newly enacted tort reform which could reduce lawsuits). As you can see, it's not just those poor unemployed victims or evil insurance companies that cause high hospital costs.

Now, where do I get my information? Is it from taking a friend to the er or I had a bad hospital experience? Nope. I worked in an er and in a hospital for over four years and most here know I have family that currently work in ers.

[nathanm]

Are you serious? The hospital actually asked your roommate how he was going to pay for its professional medical services? Oh, the horror!

As for emergency rooms losing money, your list omits the damage illegal aliens have wreaked by using these medical assets as their personal primary clinic (how many ers and trauma centers have closed because of the EMTALA mandates), or the

So it's only illegal immigrants who use the ER that way? Poor legals don't? What world are you living in?

And my problem isn't that they asked him how he was going to pay, it was the order of operations. It seems like when someone presents with severe pain, perhaps an actual examination rather than a cursory visual inspection is in order prior to working out the billing details. Or they could, you know, multitask and do them both at the same time...

Making you sit around for 20 minutes while they do whatever they do in their computer before being treated when there's nobody else being treated doesn't seem like the right way to go about it.

[Red Arrow]

yet REFUSE TO SUPPORT ANY DEM EFFORT TO REFORM THE SYSTEM.

You will find this difficult to comprehend but there are people that truly want health care reform that believe the present Democratic Party presentation is not the correct answer.

The Democrats have been just as non-cooperative as the Republicans.

[guido911]

So it's only illegal immigrants who use the ER that way? Poor legals don't? What world are you living in?

And my problem isn't that they asked him how he was going to pay, it was the order of operations. It seems like when someone presents with severe pain, perhaps an actual examination rather than a cursory visual inspection is in order prior to working out the billing details. Or they could, you know, multitask and do them both at the same time...

Making you sit around for 20 minutes while they do whatever they do in their computer before being treated when there's nobody else being treated doesn't seem like the right way to go about it.

Unless you worked in an er at some point in your life, the world I used to live in when I WORKED in the er is damn sure more qualified to speak on the subject of ers than yours. As to who uses an er for primary care (illegals vs. legals), you know damned well my original comment had to do with the costs of the delivery of health care and how you left out many factors in the post I responded to. If you have never heard/read that the burden illegals place on this country's ers and trauma centers, you certainly don't live in this world.

As for your order of operations quip, I do not recall one time when a patient presented tothe er via ambulance was ever sent to work out the billing details at another desk without being seen. Your beef appears to be with the triage system, "worst first" sort of concept I believe you referred to as a "cursory visual inspection". Sorry bub, that's the way it will always be. The fact that your roommate's SP was not detected during triage (by I assume by a provider just listening to breath sounds) is unfortunate but SP is a very unusual condition particularly in young people. But you apparently believe that only after an expensive battery of tests, x-rays, radiological scans and diagnoses are completed is when the timing of discussing billing acceptable.  Following your belief to a very real conclusion, it is quite conceivable that obtaining the diagnosis first before billing is discussed would encourage patients to just walk out after having been treated or diagnosed with something minor.

Now, I do agree that in certain circumstances multitasking is a good idea. That happened all the time when patients who walk in with gravely serious medical conditions needing immediate attention. I recall several times when I physically carried in my arms or over my shoulder walking wounded that I snared while they were trying to check in/provide billing information and obtained the same after we got them stabilized.

When you go to an er waiting room, you have no real idea what is going on behind that big door leading to the treatment area. Here's another not-so-funny war story, one night an angry patient fed up for having to wait in the waiting area a little longer than she wanted managed to sneak in and complain at me while I was in a treatment room--not knowing I was providing post mortem (resulting from violent trauma) care to a recently deceased young person for viewing by his family. I can guaranty you that angered patient will never do that again. Point being, er physicians and staff are not Burger King or any other place that let's it have it your way.

[Conan71]

I once had to take a roommate to the ER when he had a spontaneous pneumothorax. They looked at him, decided he wasn't having a heart attack, and promptly directed him to the money desk and asked him how he would be paying.

They couldn't have refused him treatment, as it is a potentially life threatening condition, but that's no solution. The hospitals are losing money thanks to declining insurance payouts and more bad debt thanks to the high unemployment rate. It's too expensive to force this cost onto hospitals without compensation and not do anything to address medical problems in the indigent before they become ER-worthy.

So is it any mystery that they wanted to know his payment information?  I can tell you from my personal experience working in credit and collections for several years that it's not just high unemployment which causes such a high charge off rate in the medical industry, though it's not helping these days.  You bet there are people who cannot pay for healthcare.  That's what Medicaid and programs like Sooner Care are for.  However, there is a class of people who simply think there should be absolutely zero cost to their healthcare and refuse to pay a penny out of pocket for it, even when their insurance company is providing the majority of their care costs. 

I certainly realize there are people who need healthcare through no fault or neglect of their own and they wind up in a bind.  There are far worse things in this world than bankruptcy (which is an option if someone cannot pay their medical bills), like being paralyzed for life by an abdominal aneurysm, killed by a heart attack, etc.  Your primary residence is exempt in a bankruptcy as is your car (so long as they are paid for or if you reaffirm with your lender).  They will not throw you in prison for filing bankruptcy or simply stiffing a medical provider.  There are many "medical bankruptcies" which also include things like a mortgage on a lake house, a boat, an RV, credit cards used for many things other than medical costs.

The fact is, we are guaranteed no more of a right to free health care than we are free food or a free car by the Constitution.