Sad sight on Brookside – Bruton Tire Closed

[AngieB]

And they know what you mean at Hesselbein.

Whatever that means. 

[Hoss]

I looked up the site and at the Goodyear stores listed around Tulsa, it's $30 a skin for installation.  Looks like a break-even proposition, not any sort of real savings, at least for my own application if I were buying from a Goodyear store.  I get a special deal at Hesselbein through someone I know from my old racing days.  No one else in town can touch their price.  So, IOW, tire rack would actually cost me more than dealing with Hesselbein.

And that would be fine, if some of these tire dealers in town carried the specific size of tire I have.  Most don't.  I'd love to switch to Goodyear Eagles; I've had success with those in the past.  The Bridgestones I have do have a warranty and pro-rated warranty to boot, but I've noticed they wear pretty quickly.  I've had this car barely two years and it's nearly time for new skins.  BTW, the two years = 17k miles.

[Conan71]

And that would be fine, if some of these tire dealers in town carried the specific size of tire I have.  Most don't.  I'd love to switch to Goodyear Eagles; I've had success with those in the past.  The Bridgestones I have do have a warranty and pro-rated warranty to boot, but I've noticed they wear pretty quickly.  I've had this car barely two years and it's nearly time for new skins.  BTW, the two years = 17k miles.

17K, you gotta be kidding? That's like a bubblegum compound on those, either that or you drive like Steve McQueen wherever you go.  I get about 60K miles out of The Toyo Proxis tires I use on my truck now (originally GY Eagles that went about 50K).  My GF has Eagle RS-A's (original OEMS) on her car and presently has 53K on those but is starting to think of replacing in the coming months.  She's been happy with the handling and wear so she's sticking to Goodyears.

I changed over to Toyo primarily because they were less expensive for me than the Goodyears, and it turns out the durability has been slightly better.

[Hoss]

17K, you gotta be kidding? That's like a bubblegum compound on those, either that or you drive like Steve McQueen wherever you go.  I get about 60K miles out of The Toyo Proxis tires I use on my truck now (originally GY Eagles that went about 50K).  My GF has Eagle RS-A's (original OEMS) on her car and presently has 53K on those but is starting to think of replacing in the coming months.  She's been happy with the handling and wear so she's sticking to Goodyears.

I changed over to Toyo primarily because they were less expensive for me than the Goodyears, and it turns out the durability has been slightly better.

These are the same tires that were on the car when I bought it new.  I may switch to Toyos; I've heard good things about those as well.

Also, I was incorrect.  My tires are 215/55/18, not 225.  Still, the 55/18 makes it an odd size, or at least I've been told that.  Goodyears that size at tirerack are going for about $165 each...yowch.

[Conan71]

These are the same tires that were on the car when I bought it new.  I may switch to Toyos; I've heard good things about those as well.

Also, I was incorrect.  My tires are 215/55/18, not 225.  Still, the 55/18 makes it an odd size, or at least I've been told that.  Goodyears that size at tirerack are going for about $165 each...yowch.

Hers are 245/45/18 and Eagle RS-T's if I remember correctly.

[buckeye]

$30 per tire for mount and balance is a rip-off.  Order from Tire Rack, call for M&B quotes, get it done for $10-$12 each.  It's at least $50 cheaper, not including tax.  With the tires I like to run, the local shops never have them in stock and charge a steep premium.  The salesman have little knowledge about their product and constantly up-sell.  The post-purchase service is nothing special.  Speaking strictly as a consumer, the usual good reasons to buy local are not present.

Tire Rack will drop ship to Rally Distributing, they do good work and fast.  Cost me about $55 last time for mount, balance, etc, a little more than the cheapest, but I like those guys.

I can't remember the last time I got more than 35k miles out of a set of tires.  People talk about long-lasting tires as if going 80k miles on a set would be great.  Sure, if you like tires hard as phenolic plastic that don't grip worth a darn.  There are trade-offs...

It's a shame to see the tire shop leave Brookside, I hope he finds a better deal.

[RecycleMichael]

What a collection of tire experts we have here...all I know is the tires on my car are usually round and they hold air from QT.

Have any of you guys ever put helium or another gas in your tires? Why would I do that?

[Conan71]

What a collection of tire experts we have here...all I know is the tires on my car are usually round and they hold air from QT.

Have any of you guys ever put helium or another gas in your tires? Why would I do that?

You can do that.  The idea is to hold a constant pressure as our atmospheric air will expand and contract with the tire temperature.  I've heard radio ads which suggest nitrogen will help improve tire life, ostensibly by not having oxygen inside the casing.  The only thing I see wrong with that argument is you still have oxygen and sunlight on the outside of the casing which leads to oxidation and therefore, cracks in the sidewall and tread areas.

Not really a necessity, more like a gimmick for passenger car tires, a necessity for racing tires to keep them from becoming over-inflated and losing traction (layman's explaination).

[Hoss]

You can do that.  The idea is to hold a constant pressure as our atmospheric air will expand and contract with the tire temperature.  I've heard radio ads which suggest nitrogen will help improve tire life, ostensibly by not having oxygen inside the casing.  The only thing I see wrong with that argument is you still have oxygen and sunlight on the outside of the casing which leads to oxidation and therefore, cracks in the sidewall and tread areas.

Not really a necessity, more like a gimmick for passenger car tires, a necessity for racing tires to keep them from becoming over-inflated and losing traction (layman's explaination).

I agree regarding the nitrogen.  For a while there a lot of my coworkders swore by it....couldn't figure out how they could make a determination one way or the other.

My advice:  make sure you keep your tires pressurized to the pressure inside the doorpost on your vehicle.  The tire itself may say one thing, but your vehicle manufacturer should know better.  Bear in mind this is for vehicles like mine, that have the stock tires on them.  My tires say inflate to 32, but the doorpost says 35.

[sgrizzle]

I agree regarding the nitrogen.  For a while there a lot of my coworkders swore by it....couldn't figure out how they could make a determination one way or the other.

My advice:  make sure you keep your tires pressurized to the pressure inside the doorpost on your vehicle.  The tire itself may say one thing, but your vehicle manufacturer should know better.  Bear in mind this is for vehicles like mine, that have the stock tires on them.  My tires say inflate to 32, but the doorpost says 35.

A lifetime tire guy told me once to pay more attention to the tire, often times it's the opposite. He said car manufacturers will go for a lower pressure to make the car "seem to ride smoother." I had Goodyear Eagle RSA's (which are very good tires, but cost me nearly $300/tire) and on my car the door said 30 and the tire said 40. I got 20,000 miles on my first set at 30psi and 30,000 out of my second set at 40PSI.

The good thing about tirerack is you can research your tires and find out what is best for your terrain, weather conditions, and how others have rated their performance and life. I have seen a ton of vehicles with aftermarket wheels sporting General Grabber UHP's which are great traction tires and I'm sure the owners are stoked when they get them. Unfortunately the tire dealer doesn't let you know it's primarily a dry road tire and last I looked the manufacturer said "Do not use on snow or ice" which, if you've been outide, you know we have in oklahoma. That's been a few years, so maybe they've upgraded the tires since then but I've bought nothing but Yokohama's recently.

[Red Arrow]

Nitrogen: 
I don't know why nitrogen wouldn't follow the gas laws regarding pressure and temperature.  Air is about 78% nitrogen.  Nitrogen from a bottle will be dry so there will be no water vapor in your tires. (Assuming they purge the air in the tire left over from mounting them.) The water vapor is probably not in sufficient quantity to condense and cause less gaseous molecules and reduce the pressure in your tires unless it gets really cold. If you have liquid water in your tires from a bad air supply, they will be noticeably out of balance when the air temperature is below freezing.  Not having oxygen in your tires could be some help.  I expect most of us wear them out before the internal oxygen does significant damage.  As far as the outside, tires have compounds in them that get distributed by normal heat due to using them that helps resist oxidation from the outside (according to a Goodyear rep).  Trailer tires on infrequently used trailers that sit in the sun can develop oxidation problems and possible failures.  I believe that for most of us, Nitrogen in car tires that are driven regularly cannot hurt but is not cost effective.  What does a Nitrogen fill cost?  I don't know if automobile tires would hold helium.

Round:
Tires with nylon cord will "flat spot" from sitting, especially in cold weather.  A few miles down the road usually fixes that as the tires warm up a bit.  Used to be really common on snow tires in the 60s.

Pressure vs load:
You need enough pressure in your tires to support the load on them.  I know of at least 3 maximum cold inflation pressures, 32, 35, and 44.  I would not exceed the maximum cold inflation pressure molded into the tire.  One design tire may support 1600 lbs at 32 psi. A different design tire of the same size may require 35 psi to support the same 1600 lbs.  If your door post says 35 and your tires say 32, you do not have the same tires as originally fitted on your car.  They may be the same size but something is different in the construction.  The car manufacturer doesn't know what you may have put on your car.  American cars were notorious for listing low pressures to give a smooth ride.  I just checked my 63 and 66 Buick factory maintenance manuals and they recommended pressures around 24-28 psi for normal loads. Up to 32 for a heavy load. That was before even belted bias ply tires.  All the car tires I knew about then were  32psi max cold pressure tires.  Modern belted radials won't wear out the center of the tread if they are inflated a bit more than necessary to carry the actual load on them.  Higher inflation pressure allows the tires to roll easier and generate less heat from flexing.  You can also do some minor tweaks on the handling with tire pressures if you can notice things like understeer. German cars have tire pressures listed for low speed and higher pressures for continuous high speed driving.  The load rating of a tire decreases with increasing speed but most of us don't get to drive that fast.   The tires on my cars are rated at 44 psi max.  I put the front tires at 43 and the rear tires at 41 unless I am towing a trailer.  With a trailer, I put 43 in all the tires. 

[Hoss]

Nitrogen: 
I don't know why nitrogen wouldn't follow the gas laws regarding pressure and temperature.  Air is about 78% nitrogen.  Nitrogen from a bottle will be dry so there will be no water vapor in your tires. (Assuming they purge the air in the tire left over from mounting them.) The water vapor is probably not in sufficient quantity to condense and cause less gaseous molecules and reduce the pressure in your tires unless it gets really cold. If you have liquid water in your tires from a bad air supply, they will be noticeably out of balance when the air temperature is below freezing.  Not having oxygen in your tires could be some help.  I expect most of us wear them out before the internal oxygen does significant damage.  As far as the outside, tires have compounds in them that get distributed by normal heat due to using them that helps resist oxidation from the outside (according to a Goodyear rep).  Trailer tires on infrequently used trailers that sit in the sun can develop oxidation problems and possible failures.  I believe that for most of us, Nitrogen in car tires that are driven regularly cannot hurt but is not cost effective.  What does a Nitrogen fill cost?  I don't know if automobile tires would hold helium.

Round:
Tires with nylon cord will "flat spot" from sitting, especially in cold weather.  A few miles down the road usually fixes that as the tires warm up a bit.  Used to be really common on snow tires in the 60s.

Pressure vs load:
You need enough pressure in your tires to support the load on them.  I know of at least 3 maximum cold inflation pressures, 32, 35, and 44.  I would not exceed the maximum cold inflation pressure molded into the tire.  One design tire may support 1600 lbs at 32 psi. A different design tire of the same size may require 35 psi to support the same 1600 lbs.  If your door post says 35 and your tires say 32, you do not have the same tires as originally fitted on your car.  They may be the same size but something is different in the construction.  The car manufacturer doesn't know what you may have put on your car.  American cars were notorious for listing low pressures to give a smooth ride.  I just checked my 63 and 66 Buick factory maintenance manuals and they recommended pressures around 24-28 psi for normal loads. Up to 32 for a heavy load. That was before even belted bias ply tires.  All the car tires I knew about then were  32psi max cold pressure tires.  Modern belted radials won't wear out the center of the tread if they are inflated a bit more than necessary to carry the actual load on them.  Higher inflation pressure allows the tires to roll easier and generate less heat from flexing.  You can also do some minor tweaks on the handling with tire pressures if you can notice things like understeer. German cars have tire pressures listed for low speed and higher pressures for continuous high speed driving.  The load rating of a tire decreases with increasing speed but most of us don't get to drive that fast.   The tires on my cars are rated at 44 psi max.  I put the front tires at 43 and the rear tires at 41 unless I am towing a trailer.  With a trailer, I put 43 in all the tires. 

I can guaran-damn-tee you I have the same tires that were put on the car at the factory.  I bought the car new.  It came with a warranty for the tires, which bear an awful resemblance to the tires that are currently on there.

All I'm saying is that the door post says something different than the tire.  People have told me this happens.  My car is a slightly sporty sedan with a touring suspension, so I wasn't expecting a Cadillac ride in it.  So far, 35 pounds garners me about 3-5 percent better fuel economy as well.

[Red Arrow]

I can guaran-damn-tee you I have the same tires that were put on the car at the factory.  I bought the car new.  It came with a warranty for the tires, which bear an awful resemblance to the tires that are currently on there.

All I'm saying is that the door post says something different than the tire.  People have told me this happens.  My car is a slightly sporty sedan with a touring suspension, so I wasn't expecting a Cadillac ride in it.  So far, 35 pounds garners me about 3-5 percent better fuel economy as well.

It's your car and tires so I'm not about to call you a liar. You seem to be a car guy so I'll assume (dangerous, I know) that  you read all the labels correctly but I still have to ask:  Are the numbers on the door post for the same size and rating (including speed rating) tires as on your car?  Did you get a standard sticker for standard suspension/tires?  I assume "awful resemblance" is same make, model, size, speed rating, you didn't go from metric to "P" metric, you didn't replace no longer available tires with the present production "equivalent" etc. Sometimes tire manufacturers change specs too. Some tire companies have different speed ratings within the same model.  It is entirely possible the label on the door post is just flat mismatched to the tires too.  One last possibility, do the tires have their load rating at one pressure and have a higher maximum cold pressure?

I have no doubt you get a bit better gas mileage.  That was one of the cries to get rid of the 55 mph speed limit.  Increase your tire pressure to the proper pressure or maybe the max allowed and you negate any supposed increase in gas mileage by going 55.  My cars have typically gotten their best gas mileage between 60 and 65 mph on the highway.  I don't like/own/drive wimpy cars (except no-choice rentals).  I think they are dangerous.  Street tires typically grip a bit better and are less noisy around corners with a bit higher pressure too.

[Hoss]

It's your car and tires so I'm not about to call you a liar. You seem to be a car guy so I'll assume (dangerous, I know) that  you read all the labels correctly but I still have to ask:  Are the numbers on the door post for the same size and rating (including speed rating) tires as on your car?  Did you get a standard sticker for standard suspension/tires?  I assume "awful resemblance" is same make, model, size, speed rating, you didn't go from metric to "P" metric, you didn't replace no longer available tires with the present production "equivalent" etc. Sometimes tire manufacturers change specs too. Some tire companies have different speed ratings within the same model.  It is entirely possible the label on the door post is just flat mismatched to the tires too.  One last possibility, do the tires have their load rating at one pressure and have a higher maximum cold pressure?

I have no doubt you get a bit better gas mileage.  That was one of the cries to get rid of the 55 mph speed limit.  Increase your tire pressure to the proper pressure or maybe the max allowed and you negate any supposed increase in gas mileage by going 55.  My cars have typically gotten their best gas mileage between 60 and 65 mph on the highway.  I don't like/own/drive wimpy cars (except no-choice rentals).  I think they are dangerous.  Street tires typically grip a bit better and are less noisy around corners with a bit higher pressure too.

I didn't say you were calling me a liar; I'm just as baffled as you, but one thing I noticed is that for the first 8000 or so miles I was inflating to 32 in the warmer weather, my tire sensors never squawked at me until it went under that during the first cold spell.  I then started looking on the door post and saw 35 for all, and also noticed that's what Chris Nikel was inflating them to when I would have the car serviced (just regular oil change/filter change, and would have the tires rotated every other change).  Haven't had them squawk back yet, even this morning.

I asked them what was the pressure that was recommended to them for those tires on that vehicle and was told that Bridgestone recommended 35 on the Avenger because 32 would cause the tire to wear more on the sides than in the middle (classic underinflation symptom).  Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the car weighs about 3800 pounds (with the V6 I have in it).

Also, regarding QT.  There's a reason their air compressors are no-charge.  It's because almost every one of them suck.  The only good one I've found is the one at Pine & Mingo.  Pretty much the only complaint I have about QT, and it regards a freebie.  LOL.

[rwarn17588]

Here's a pretty good overview about pumping nitrogen into tires:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2694/is-it-better-to-fill-your-tires-with-nitrogen-instead-of-air

The gist: Using nitrogen may improve gas mileage marginally, so don't pay to have it done.

And the best tires I've ever used, by far, were Goodyear Regattas.