Ideas on funding/fixing public safety

[RecycleMichael]

This is a followup in a question asked by another TulsaNow Poster in another thread.

I have a couple of ideas that could raise revenue or lower expenses for financing public safety.

My first is to call for a public vote to raise the city of Tulsa sales tax to a flat 9%. The current three cents that Tulsa gets raises about $200 million per year so adding another .483 cents per dollar of goods purchased would raise another $32 million per year. Sand Springs is already at 9.012%, Sapulpa is already at 9.500% and Glenpool is already at 9.517%.

I would be fine with paying a little more for dedicated funding for public safety.

My second idea is to combine the Police department and the Sheriff's department. I know that the city and county don't work well sometimes and the two departments have different entrance requirements and training. That doesn't mean that entrance requirements can be changed nor existing personnel can't get additional training.

As a person who luckily doesn't interact much with the police or sheriff folk, I truly don't see much difference. They both have guns, cars, uniforms and the ability to arrest me if I break the law. I am sure there are some ego and territorial issues that make this more difficult than simply raising the tax rate, but now is the best time I know of to make the decision to merge.

These are my two first ideas. I got them from others and I am sure there are other ideas out there from other posters.

[Red Arrow]

Minor technical correction: Raise the total sale tax in Tulsa to 9%, not the City Sales tax.

Also, Bixby is about 9.5% total sales tax.

[rwarn17588]

Good suggestions so far. I would like to add ... do a full, independent audit on the Public Works Department to make sure things are actually running smoothly. Right now, we have a lot of conjecture and assumptions that PW is inefficient; let's actually confirm these assumptions before taking any steps.

[Breadburner]

No more tax.....They need to learn to live within their respective budgets.......

[patric]

No more tax.....They need to learn to live within their respective budgets.......

+1.

Really now, how long have I been wailing about how wasteful our streetlights are, and how many examples have I given of other communities that have quite literally saved millions of dollars annually by getting that waste under control?

http://www.rpi.edu/dept/lrc/nystreet/how-to-officials.pdf

http://content.calgary.ca/CCA/City+Hall/Business+Units/Roads/Streetlights/EnviroSmart+Streetlight+Retrofit/EnviroSmart+Streetlight+Retrofit.htm

And yet streetlight waste is but one aspect of a pattern of wasteful spending we have become accustomed to, in pretty much all departments all across the city.

To many this may seem like minutiae, but in reality a snowflake is minutiae until you allow yourself to get buried by it as you sit back and watch it accumulate.

[YoungTulsan]

Now that the negotiations are pretty much over with, maybe we will start to hear about new revenue sources.

If any ideas were floated before/during negotiations, there would have been no ability to make any movement on the expenditures side of things.  Best to get costs down first, then after every possible cut, start talking about future revenue streams.

Also, in budgeting for the future, we need to stop it with the projections based on rosy economic conditions.  If anything, we should take the numbers from the worst of this recession, and base all future budgets on it.  Do not allow politicians to assume revenues will be any better than they are right now.  If we luck out and have good economic times, invest any surpluses into any and everything that has been proven to create long term cost savings (I said proven, not cooked up schemes by people trying to dump a $75 million property on us)

[BKDotCom]

I know I'm not being taxed enough.
In addition to our sales tax not being high enough, I wish I could pay higher property and income taxes..   Does the 1024 have a just take all my savings and spending money option?

We're paying to much as it is!
How about lowering taxes for once?
The police and fire salaries are inflated as it is!
City Salaries (incl police/fire)
Those are base salaries....  most opt to work 4 10-hour.   that's 40 hours.... yet those "extra" two hours a day are considered overtime...

If the answer is "throw more money at it," then you're asking the wrong questions.

[OUGrad05]

I know I'm not being taxed enough.
In addition to our sales tax not being high enough, I wish I could pay higher property and income taxes..   Does the 1024 have a just take all my savings and spending money option?

We're paying to much as it is!
How about lowering taxes for once?
The police and fire salaries are inflated as it is!
City Salaries (incl police/fire)
Those are base salaries....  most opt to work 4 10-hour.   that's 40 hours.... yet those "extra" two hours a day are considered overtime...

If the answer is "throw more money at it," then you're asking the wrong questions.

Tax increases aren't the ansewr until government waste has been confronted and taken care of.  On that we can agree...
However, what makes you think the extra 2 hours is OT?  It is not unless the police union in Tulsa has some odd clause that allows that to be the case.  I have several family members and friends in policing and all work 10 hour days and it is not considered over time until you work over 10 hours. 

Police and fire are paid reasonable wages but they are not overpaid given their jobs, stresses and potential for injury/death.  The problem is ith city management.  Caving to union demands, giving unsustainable raises during good years.  Raising the city budget, raising services simply because revenues are up.  Instead they need to put 50% or more of all surpluses in good years in a rainy day fund.  Additionally the city needs to find new sources of stable revenue.

[Rico]

"They both have guns, cars, uniforms and the ability to arrest me if I break the law."


^^That's the way it is now.^^

Every Mayor since Susan Savage has stated that "Public Safety" would be the first priority.
The number of police academies, that have added to Tulsa's investment in public safety, during the same time, can be counted without using all the fingers of both your hands.

This was during a good economic climate and.. the current conditions.

Tulsa's investment in Safety, Education, Quality of life, and the other criteria major business looks for in locating and maintaining a work force, in an area, have all but been ignored or the monies have gone to projects that would "put us on the map".

Out of curiosity... "Casinos and gambling were to have fixed the Education Revenue shortfall."

Where is that money going?

Gambling, if anything is up, and continues to go up.

Anyone know or is that one of those Oklahoma topics that one doesn't ask about.

"The arena, the ballpark, a new City Hall, will make us more desirable and a more family oriented place to live."

The truth of the matter is....

TULSA CRIME INDEX

4

100 is safest

This city is safer than 4% of the cities in the US.


Throwing more money to politicians that have proven they don't know their as$ from a hole in the ground is working real well.

[OUGrad05]

"They both have guns, cars, uniforms and the ability to arrest me if I break the law."


^^That's the way it is now.^^

Every Mayor since Susan Savage has stated that "Public Safety" would be the first priority.
The number of police academies, that have added to Tulsa's investment in public safety, during the same time, can be counted without using all the fingers of both your hands.

This was during a good economic climate and.. the current conditions.

Tulsa's investment in Safety, Education, Quality of life, and the other criteria major business looks for in locating and maintaining a work force, in an area, have all but been ignored or the monies have gone to projects that would "put us on the map".

Out of curiosity... "Casinos and gambling were to have fixed the Education Revenue shortfall."

Where is that money going?

Gambling, if anything is up, and continues to go up.

Anyone know or is that one of those Oklahoma topics that one doesn't ask about.

"The arena, the ballpark, a new City Hall, will make us more desirable and a more family oriented place to live."

The truth of the matter is....

TULSA CRIME INDEX

4

100 is safest

This city is safer than 4% of the cities in the US.


Throwing more money to politicians that have proven they don't know their as$ from a hole in the ground is working real well.

Keep in mind crime is not just a policing issue though.

[shadows]

Any citizen of the city of Tulsa can under municipal statutes protest the city budget through the state auditor office which will be transferred to the OC court of tax appeals.  Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent for surveys to reduce the cost of city operations.  The general consensus has been "get rid of the top heavy management."  Revenue bonds are issued to be repaid from the revenue they generate.  Tulsa is having a hard time generating revenue in the glass monstrosity with two vacant floors and furnish one half of the third one on a gratis basis.

We can increase sales taxes but when computer operated machines that operate without human error replacing hundreds of  jobs forever how do you create jobs.  The cell phone operating as a camera, texting, video and land line phones reduced future retail sales of now obsolete objects.  The migration of the rural resident to the easy life in the city created a influx of unemployment.  The internet payments to the banks has done away with hundreds of jobs.  The credit card industry has obligated the citizens thus stopping the expansion of the employment cycle.  We demand 44% of the worlds production of gasoline but we have closed the filling stations with great job losses.  We have many electronic machines that can replace police ticketing with an auto ticketing system that will mail the summons.  We have electronic meter readers that eliminate those jobs.  Government is the biggest employer and job creator.  The secretary of state in France seems to be trying to get WWlll started.   All of this and more while we want to talk about increasing revenue to expand government.

Oh well maybe we should talk about 2012 when the planets in our solar system align as predicted thousands of years ago and the gravitation forces of which we know nothing about except our solar system depends on it to function.        

[Red Arrow]

Shadows child of the great depression,

You have been around long enough to see technology create new jobs to replace the ones it reduced or eliminated.  What makes you think this won't continue?

[TURobY]

Shadows child of the great depression,

You have been around long enough to see technology create new jobs to replace the ones it reduced or eliminated.  What makes you think this won't continue?

I've attempted this discussion with Shadows before... you won't get anywhere.

[shadows]

Shadows child of the great depression,

You have been around long enough to see technology create new jobs to replace the ones it reduced or eliminated.  What makes you think this won't continue?

This little ole machine has let technology overtake the human brain.  Encased is the knowledge of a thousand professors with instant recall.

Our technology has created poverty here and is well on the way to create another black hole in the universe.  We search the ruins of other societies that existed thousands of years ago.  We are only a flash of light in the chain of life and have reached the point where others failed.  Demand=Supply=jobs.  Our goal has been to eliminate private jobs. 

[FOTD]

Tea room tax for all us tea baggers.....

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=14886.new#new