Ideas on funding/fixing public safety

[rwarn17588]

I do. I also remember how they eliminated most private property, so I see the lie right there in their name. Similar to the German Democratic Republic.

You don't have to buy into their nearly 20 years past disinformation, however.

Ouch. That's going to leave a mark.

[Red Arrow]

I do. I also remember how they eliminated most private property, so I see the lie right there in their name. Similar to the German Democratic Republic.

You don't have to buy into their nearly 20 years past disinformation, however.

Nor do I need to buy into your philosophy.

[RecycleMichael]

Back on the topic of finding funding for local public safety efforts...

This from today's Tulsa World...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100205_16_A1_Tulsan82302

Poll backs tax for public safety

MAYOR
Dewey Bartlett: The mayor received mixed reviews for his handling of the situation.  
By RANDY KREHBIEL World Staff Writer
Published: 2/5/2010  4:10 AM
Last Modified: 2/5/2010  6:25 AM

Tulsans are open to the possibility of a tax increase to pay for police and fire protection, according to an Oklahoma Poll conducted this week. Fifty-two percent of the 318 voters surveyed Monday through Wednesday said they would "favor an additional tax dedicated to funding police and fire." The question did not specify what kind of tax or how much of one.

"If we really need 140-something police, we're going to have to find a way to fund it," said poll respondent Stephen Lee. "I guess that would be another city sales tax, but I don't know what's practical and what isn't."

Perhaps not surprisingly, poll participants approved of the firefighters union's decision to accept contract concessions rather than layoffs, and disapproved of the police union for turning down the concessions, leading to more than 120 layoffs. "I think the firefighters did fantastic," said Debra Jackson. "I think the police stink." Eighty-four percent said they approved of the firefighters' action, while only 27 percent backed the police's decision.

The questions were written before it was revealed the two proposals were somewhat different.  "I feel like the firemen basically are in everybody's heart," said Linda Lewis. "They did accept the pay cuts just to protect the citizens. That same feeling is not extended to the police."

Jackson, laid off more than a year ago, said, "If I'd had a chance to keep my job at less pay, believe me, I would have done it."

Firefighters union President Stan May said public support "mean a lot to us. We did what we did because we didn't believe we could stop providing the services we have been providing."  Fraternal Order of Police President Phil Evans said the city did not leave his membership much choice. "When you negotiate," Evans said, "you normally move to middle ground. In this case, the mayor kept moving farther and farther away. It's almost as if he wanted this proposal to fail."

Mayor Dewey Bartlett received mixed reviews for his handling of the situation brought on by a $10 million shortfall in city revenues. Forty-eight percent of those surveyed said they strongly or somewhat approved of Bartlett's performance during the crisis, while 38 percent disapproved. "This is just a point in time," Bartlett said. "What we need to do is to continue to look to the future."

Lee said he thought Bartlett "handled himself really well" in his dealings with the police and firefighters. "I thought he conducted himself real well in the media," Lee said. "He didn't get real adamant. He kept his emotions in check." Others were not so complimentary. "I voted for Bartlett, but, boy, I'll never vote for him again," said Cheryl Lundgren.

"It's not so much that (Bartlett's) been wrong," Lewis said. "It's not so much a black and white situation. But because he didn't come forth with his thoughts, even if they were kind of sketchy, he made everyone think he had an hidden agenda."

Bartlett was noncommittal about a public safety tax, saying he still hoped to reach an agreement to bring back some or all of the laid-off police. "If we can make a deal with the FOP, it will give us some breathing room so that we can start looking at some of these ideas," he said.

Lewis, whose husband recently returned to work after a seventh-month layoff, said a tax to pay for police and fire is pointless if people can't afford to buy anything.
If people are not spending money, (a tax increase) is not going to do any good," she said. "That remedy is useless."

[nathanm]

Nor do I need to buy into your philosophy.

I never said you had to. What I'm wondering is where this strong socialist streak is coming from. This is Oklahoma. People should be willing to pay their own way. Yet somehow, those who strongly identify as "not socialist" think it's a bad idea.

[rwarn17588]

Back on the topic of finding funding for local public safety efforts...

This from today's Tulsa World...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100205_16_A1_Tulsan82302

The poll confirms that the police union made a catastrophic decision in rejecting the mayor's offer. The public disapproved of the police's action by a 3-to-1 margin.

Meanwhile, the public wholeheartedly approved of the firefighters' concessions.

More mixed results for the mayor, but mostly positive. He's making difficult decisions, so he can't please everyone.

I suspect if crime stays on an even keel or goes down after the police layoffs, public support for an additional tax for public safety will go down. Support for it isn't even that strong now.

And I'm still waiting for an answer from Wilbur to my question ... tick tick tick ...

[Red Arrow]

I never said you had to. What I'm wondering is where this strong socialist streak is coming from. This is Oklahoma. People should be willing to pay their own way. Yet somehow, those who strongly identify as "not socialist" think it's a bad idea.

I think that most believe they are paying their own way through taxes.  Think of it as a loan.  The city puts out the up-front money and builds the infrastructure.  Then the homeowners pay it back through taxes.  About the time you get it paid off, it's time to fix it and the "loan" starts all over.

"Also, I think waterboy's point is that all of the existing housing stock has had its infrastructure paid for through general taxes."

[Conan71]

I think that most believe they are paying their own way through taxes.  Think of it as a loan.  The city puts out the up-front money and builds the infrastructure.  Then the homeowners pay it back through taxes.  About the time you get it paid off, it's time to fix it and the "loan" starts all over.

"Also, I think waterboy's point is that all of the existing housing stock has had its infrastructure paid for through general taxes."

Drive through mid town and it's obvious our infrastructure was paid for a VERY long time ago 

[Red Arrow]

Drive through mid town and it's obvious our infrastructure was paid for a VERY long time ago 

And the city spent the money to fix your infrastructure on something else.

[Conan71]

And the city spent the money to fix your infrastructure on something else.

You know what worries me right now?  Precious little is being said or, more importantly being done with the road package voters approved.  Who wants to bet they will figure out a way to corral that money into something entirely unrelated.

Along those lines, I was totally dismayed driving north on the west leg of the IDL to discover that the bridge I-beams have not been re-coated as a part of the reconstruction project and that I can see re-bar sticking out of crumbling stanchions.  We have nice new decking, but what's holding it up looks like crap and in places, quite unsound.

[FOTD]

But the drainage off it is perfect do doubt.

Did the thread on closed rec centers develop or are we ignoring one of our best park resources like our councilors and mayors?

[Gaspar]

Just got done driving from 81st to 11th and back. . .up Harvard, then down Sheridan.  Glad I have a large 4wd with good off-road suspension.  I felt like I knocked a few fillings loose by the time I got back to the office.

Yesterday I noticed that a young lady LOST A WHEEL on Harvard after hitting that rough series of pot holes between 81st and 71st.  If you hit those full on while trying to make that curve, you're gonna die!

[Conan71]

Just got done driving from 81st to 11th and back. . .up Harvard, then down Sheridan.  Glad I have a large 4wd with good off-road suspension.  I felt like I knocked a few fillings loose by the time I got back to the office.

Yesterday I noticed that a young lady LOST A WHEEL on Harvard after hitting that rough series of pot holes between 81st and 71st.  If you hit those full on while trying to make that curve, you're gonna die!

The hole dodging on I-244 north of the Broken Arrow split was scary this morning.  I won't be on that stretch of road again for awhile, sure as hell not on my motorcycle.

[BKDotCom]

I think that most believe they are paying their own way through taxes.  Think of it as a loan.  The city puts out the up-front money and builds the infrastructure.  Then the homeowners pay it back through taxes.  About the time you get it paid off, it's time to fix it and the "loan" starts all over.

Homeowner's monthly payments go up (or exceed monthly loan payment) after paying off the loan?

The issue here is taxes only go up... never down.
Why is that?
Because government keeps bloating...
police and fire salaries are crazy high...there's outrage that we don't have more officers...

[Gaspar]

New Tulsa passtime. . . Pot Hole Diving.

[FOTD]

Because the tire dealerships are the one's profiting off this misery, FOTD is proposing a windfall profits tax on them.