Brady District

[heironymouspasparagus]

I like the squeaks and groans of old wood buildings.  Gotta get by there again to look one more time.  Still don't like just wood for that size.  Metal outside frame would add some serious strength.  But yeah, everyone seems to be using 2X's and "engineered" beams.  Oh, well,


I have worked on several of those 1920's homes over the years.  Most recent one I pounded a nail in was in that Maple Ridge area, south of 15th, north of 21st, west of Peoria.  Nice old house that had been seriously abused over the years.  Saw the bare bones of that one.  Love those old houses, but don't kid yourself about how much they didn't cut corners then, too.  They did.

From foundations to framing - there were problems with "low bid" mentality in every age.  And as soon as the plaster is on, no one will see it again for many years.  One of my favorites is the method of making a wall stud out of three pieces, each about 3 feet long.  One for the top plate, one for the sill, and one to bridge the gap between the two, held together with nails!  And not even 16P nails.  Looked like about 10P.  And this method used not just once but about 8 or 10 times.  Built 1922, exposed 2010.  Guess it worked out ok, except for the unevenness.

And footings on old 1920's and 30's shotgun bungalows...wow!  Take a shovel, scrape the grass off, then lay down 4 or 5" of mortar.  Start laying block.  In other words - no footing at all.  (South of 11th, north of 15th, between Lewis and Yale.  Several examples.)

[Weatherdemon]

It appears they putting in concrete floors between each story for strength and sound proofing.

[dsjeffries]

It appears they putting in concrete floors between each story for strength and sound proofing.

Concrete floors with wooden 2x6s? I'm no engineer but I don't think that's advisable. I figured the concrete section was solely for the parking garage. And since they're already using steel and concrete for the garage, why not use it for the building?

It'd be nice if someone with knowledge of their construction plans was on here!

Edit:

Went on a long walk tonight to photograph the building and area. Photos below show there are no concrete floors except for one section near the main entry, that they're using pre-fabricated supports and laminated 2x6s, the parking garage, a firewall, an example of the (lack of) quality of construction, and a finish model.


This is the one section that has a concrete floor. NW corner near main entrance. Also shows extensive lamination.
















Looks secure and tightly fitted, doesn't it?


Finish model

[heironymouspasparagus]

Pretty sorry.  Low Bid.

And the pink foam layer is supposed to go under the sill to 'seal' it off.  Oh, well.  About what I expected, though.
Can't tell from the pictures, but would be interesting to see if the tie plates used on those trusses are the kind you buy at Lowe's or the real kind they should be.  From the close ups, Lowe's wouldn't surprise me.

At least they are using real plywood on the outside rather than OSB.


 

[ZYX]

Darn it, the model has black windows but the rendering showed red windows. I liked the red ones better. Other than that it looks good!

[Red Arrow]

I am not a fan of the sheet steel floor joist hangers.  I would rather see the joist sitting on a beam than hanging by about 6 nails.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Probably true...no point worrying until just the "right" wind comes along...

Red,
Those truss plates are excellent if they are the right ones.  I have used them to great effect before with great success.  Different application.

[Red Arrow]

Probably true...no point worrying until just the "right" wind comes along...

Red,
Those truss plates are excellent if they are the right ones.  I have used them to great effect before with great success.  Different application.

The truss plates that take a big machine to install are actually pretty good.  The ones you can hammer in at home, I have my doubts.  Those aren't what I was talking about.  The joist hangers are fine for installing a ceiling that won't get a load from above.  That is all.

[Conan71]

Probably true...no point worrying until just the "right" wind comes along...

Red,
Those truss plates are excellent if they are the right ones.  I have used them to great effect before with great success.  Different application.

Did a number on the Microtel or whatever it was under construction in Owasso when it was torn to pieces by a gust front.

[Red Arrow]

Did a number on the Microtel or whatever it was under construction in Owasso when it was torn to pieces by a gust front.

I think many types of construction are vulnerable to bad weather before they are completed.  I remember a concrete block wall being blown over before the corners were done. I think it was at NAS Oceana (Va Beach, VA) when they were building the new Exchange (PX).  The red iron at TTC at Riverside Airport was blown down during its construction.

[Weatherdemon]

Did a number on the Microtel or whatever it was under construction in Owasso when it was torn to pieces by a gust front.

True, but it had no walls when the wind hit it.

Also, on the concrete, it is only between the first and second floors on Tribune 2.

I would like to see better construction but the fact at that construction is happening downtown is awesome and as long as it meets code, I say rock on.

[Conan71]

True, but it had no walls when the wind hit it.

Also, on the concrete, it is only between the first and second floors on Tribune 2.

I would like to see better construction but the fact at that construction is happening downtown is awesome and as long as it meets code, I say rock on.

In reality, the construction is not unlike the small apartment buildings built in the 1920's & 1930's scattered around Cherry St.  Ones I've been in had wood floors.  Either you deal with the as$ pain of moving in and out of a top floor apartment to miss the noise, or move in on a lower floor and hear your ceiling squeak when your neighbors move about.

[tulsa1603]

So now, in addition to a posse of armchair urban planners, we have a posse of armchair structural engineers and architects?    

Would anyone here be willing to pay 25 or 50% more in rent for a concrete or steel structure?  I didn't think so.  

Would people here complain about how it was keeping lower income people out of downtown if the rents for these units were 50% higher?  Most definitely, and probably the same people complaining about the perceived lack of quality right now.  In fact, they will probably still complain about the rent being charged, when they know nothing about the economics of putting a project like this together.  THere is a certain mix of rental rates, construction cost, and maintenance costs that they have to look at to figure out what will and won't work.  

Wood frame is allowed by the building code.  It's not the BEST, but it works and makes a project like this viable.  The project has to be designed by a licensed architect and a licensed structural engineer, who have both put their stamps on the line to say that this thing is going to stand up.  I don't think there is anything to be so upset about, it's not like some of the low quality single family stuff you see where no licenses are required and builders can basically turn in a napkin sketch to get a permit.  I'm just happy they're actually using brick and precast instead of fake stucco - and that they actually have a mock-up on site?  That's almost impressive to me.  Shows a commitment to a nice looking finished product.  

Developers aren't going to take on projects when they can't make money.   These types of endeavors are easy to preach about, but not so easy when it's your money on the line.  I think some of you aren't used to seeing construction downtown, so you didn't know what to expect.  

[Conan71]

I don't think anyone is that upset about the construction, just that it's not exactly what most of us expected to see and there's been some comments floated on that.

[tulsa1603]

I don't think anyone is that upset about the construction, just that it's not exactly what most of us expected to see and there's been some comments floated on that.

I would assume most of the upcoming smaller scale projects coming to downtown will be wood frame, so we need to adjust our expectations.  I wasn't so shocked about the wood as I was at the speed it was put up.  If i needed an apartment I wouldn't have a problem living there.