Brady District

[Townsend]

Well in any case, until Steve Kitchell's mom opens entertainment venues in Brady, I'm excited for the progress.

[rdj]

Again, it looks exactly like every other residential apartment complex that goes up in this part of the country. 

Here's one in Dallas that will be 372 units just outside of downtown.  I pass it everyday going to work.  It's wood framed and much larger than the Tribune addition.

I think a lot of this is worry about nothing.

That's some really gray wood that makes up the frame and door jams on that project.

[Conan71]

Well in any case, until Steve Kitchell's mom opens entertainment venues in Brady, I'm excited for the progress.

Hopefully the rent will remain out of their reach.

[rdj]

So now, in addition to a posse of armchair urban planners, we have a posse of armchair structural engineers and architects?    

Would anyone here be willing to pay 25 or 50% more in rent for a concrete or steel structure?  I didn't think so.  

Would people here complain about how it was keeping lower income people out of downtown if the rents for these units were 50% higher?  Most definitely, and probably the same people complaining about the perceived lack of quality right now.  In fact, they will probably still complain about the rent being charged, when they know nothing about the economics of putting a project like this together.  THere is a certain mix of rental rates, construction cost, and maintenance costs that they have to look at to figure out what will and won't work.  

Wood frame is allowed by the building code.  It's not the BEST, but it works and makes a project like this viable.  The project has to be designed by a licensed architect and a licensed structural engineer, who have both put their stamps on the line to say that this thing is going to stand up.  I don't think there is anything to be so upset about, it's not like some of the low quality single family stuff you see where no licenses are required and builders can basically turn in a napkin sketch to get a permit.  I'm just happy they're actually using brick and precast instead of fake stucco - and that they actually have a mock-up on site?  That's almost impressive to me.  Shows a commitment to a nice looking finished product.  

Developers aren't going to take on projects when they can't make money.   These types of endeavors are easy to preach about, but not so easy when it's your money on the line.  I think some of you aren't used to seeing construction downtown, so you didn't know what to expect.  

I guess you didn't see my post here:

I do.  I am about to build a 17,000 sq ft two story commercial office building and am choosing to use red iron and metal studs.  I want something that will last and not be squeaky when someone walks across the upper floor.  For a residential building of this size in an urban/downtown setting I expected the same.  ARG is building this just like they would build an apartment building at 101st & Memorial.  That's fine and I'm excited about the project, I just wish it was steel for the future tenants sake.  My guess is the economics didn't work out, whether it be their investors desire for more dividends or their lenders desire for a higher debt service coverage ratio.

[Truman]

The group building this project have had the $4 million dollars, from the TDA,  to create DT Housing for going on 6 years.

They were loaned the money twice.

Once for 4 years in which they did nothing. Time to repay the TDA, they reapplied through an RFP put out by the TDA, and according to the TDA, were the sole respondent and were given loan of the money a second time.

This time half way through the loan cycle they put up "wood".

Six years to come up with something similar to what Amanda and Metro Lofts were sprinkling the Cherry street area with. "Before they filed bankruptcy and relocated?"

My guess these units ,which were to have mirrored the Tribune Lofts, will be offered For Sale, rather than lease.

And yes this will maximize the profit end of things. That and the interest? or whatever they were doing with the 4 million for the first 4 years.

Quite a lucrative transaction on the public dime.

[BKDotCom]

Once for 4 years in which they did nothing. Time to repay the TDA, they reapplied through an RFP put out by the TDA, and according to the TDA, were the sole respondent and were given loan of the money a second time.

*snip*

Quite a lucrative transaction on the public dime.

So lucrative they were the sole respondent.
This is doing exactly what that money was meant to do... spur development downtown...  and the taxpayers get the money back..   
Although we might all want to go knocking on Sager's door.. to get that $1mil back

[Red Arrow]

So now, in addition to a posse of armchair urban planners, we have a posse of armchair structural engineers and architects?    

Any particular reason you believe there are no engineers on this forum?

Would anyone here be willing to pay 25 or 50% more in rent for a concrete or steel structure?  I didn't think so.

In my case the question is irrelevant since I have no desire to live in that type housing but I realize there are people who do.  Some would choose to afford steel or concrete rents if they knew what the construction was.  Others are not so lucky.
 

Would people here complain about how it was keeping lower income people out of downtown if the rents for these units were 50% higher?  Most definitely, and probably the same people complaining about the perceived lack of quality right now.  In fact, they will probably still complain about the rent being charged, when they know nothing about the economics of putting a project like this together.  THere is a certain mix of rental rates, construction cost, and maintenance costs that they have to look at to figure out what will and won't work.

Wood is actually a fine structural material when properly used.  There were a lot of wood bridges that lasted many years, especially the covered ones.  There was a lot of wood used for heavy load bearing floors in buildings like the one McNellie's occupies.  Depending on the design margin, even a few joints can be less than perfect and still have the overall structural integrity maintained.   I still have reservations about supporting a floor with a few nails in shear. 

I also have concerns about fire safety in a commercial building made of wood.  It makes me think of the left over WWII barracks I lived in for a while at NAS Memphis in 1973.  There was a 24 hour fire watch...every day.

Even modest quality new construction will probably never be "affordable".  "Affordable" housing in older cities is generally the older housing considered less than desirable by those who can afford better.  In any case, the rents are based on a purchase cost less than new construction.

Wood frame is allowed by the building code.  It's not the BEST, but it works and makes a project like this viable.  The project has to be designed by a licensed architect and a licensed structural engineer, who have both put their stamps on the line to say that this thing is going to stand up.  I don't think there is anything to be so upset about, it's not like some of the low quality single family stuff you see where no licenses are required and builders can basically turn in a napkin sketch to get a permit.  I'm just happy they're actually using brick and precast instead of fake stucco - and that they actually have a mock-up on site?  That's almost impressive to me.  Shows a commitment to a nice looking finished product.

Hopefully the engineers and architects on this project are familiar with wood construction of this magnitude and are not just using unfamiliar minimum acceptable guidelines. 

Developers aren't going to take on projects when they can't make money.   These types of endeavors are easy to preach about, but not so easy when it's your money on the line.  I think some of you aren't used to seeing construction downtown, so you didn't know what to expect.  

Of course developers want to make money, just like I want my paycheck on a regular basis.  I am not about to say this building will be unsafe.  Older wood construction was undoubtedly over designed which allows us to have our treasured historic buildings.  Modern building techniques are not intended to last forever.  Economics plays a huge part in design decisions.  That's alright as long as the parties involved realize the design limitations.

[Jeff P]

I don't mean to interrupt this architecture/engineering discussion, but I thought you guys might be interested in this...

I was up on the roof of the tower again today.   Here's a bird's eye view of the Brady District and all of the great work currently going on:

[Townsend]

Jeff P, knock that off.

Alright everyone, back to building structures that will last what?  3 to 4 days in a 15 mph wind?

We're getting pretty good at taking a positive and neg-ing the hell out of it.

Brady development?  I pee on it.

over

[carltonplace]

Jeff P, knock that off.

Alright everyone, back to building structures that will last what?  3 to 4 days in a 15 mph wind?

We're getting pretty good at taking a positive and neg-ing the hell out of it.

Brady development?  I pee on it.

over

Looks like Jeff P is in the best position to pee on it.

[Conan71]

Looks like Jeff P is in the best position to pee on it.

Depends on the wind direction and whether or not he catches an updraft. 

[Jeff P]

With today's strong south wind, I'd have a chance.

That's really all you can ask for.

[we vs us]

In the first shot, you can see the Mathews Warehouse, then the dirt work where the new geothermal park is going to be and then an empty block and then the IDL.  What's going to go in that last empty block? 

[carltonplace]

In the first shot, you can see the Mathews Warehouse, then the dirt work where the new geothermal park is going to be and then an empty block and then the IDL.  What's going to go in that last empty block? 

KOTV

[swake]

In the first shot, you can see the Mathews Warehouse, then the dirt work where the new geothermal park is going to be and then an empty block and then the IDL.  What's going to go in that last empty block? 

That's the new KOTV site