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Author Topic: City Councilors Hate Art  (Read 9793 times)
PonderInc
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« on: February 05, 2010, 05:18:57 pm »

Wow, our City Councilors are more well-rounded than I imagined!  I had no idea that they were such Art Aficianados!  

"This is probably the ugliest thing I've ever seen in my life." - Henderson

"I like Councilor Henderson's ability to cut to the chase, and I completely agree with him." - Mautino

"I think it's great that we have the 1 percent for art. But maybe there are other options, like a statue or a painting or something else." - Barnes

"In these tight times, with city employees being laid off, can we afford to do this right now? I don't think so." - Turner

What's all the hubaloo about?  Bringing an internationally recognized artist to Tulsa to create public art on the exterior of the Convention Center.  (Maybe THAT was what Henderson was referring to...the original architecture?)

The artist, Sarah Morris has developed site-specific projects for institutions internationally over the past 10 years, including commissions at K20 Kunstsammlung Nordrhein-Westfalen Museum, Düsseldorf (2010), Gateway School of Science, New York (2010), Museum für Moderne Kunst, Frankfurt (2009), Museo d’Arte Moderna, Bologna (2009), Fondation Beyeler, Riehen/Basel (2008), Public Art Fund/Lever House (2006), Key Biscayne, Miami (2005), Palais de Tokyo (2005), UBS Zurich Headquarters (2001) and ICA Boston (1999).

She has exhibited widely—at Museum für Moderne Kunst, Frankfurt (2009), Museo d’Arte Moderna, Bologna (2009), Fondation Beyeler, Riehan/Basel (2008), Städtische Galerie im Lenbachhaus, Munich (2008), Museum Boijmans van Beuningen, Rotterdam (2006), Moderna Museet, Stockholm (2005), Palais de Tokyo, Paris (2005), Kestner Gesellschaft, Hannover (2005), Kunstforeningen, Copenhagen (2004), Miami MOCA (2002), Hirshhorn Museum, Washington, D.C. (2002), and Nationalgalerie im Hamburger Bahnhof, Berlin (2001), among others.

Here are some images that give an idea of her work...

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&oq=&q=Sarah+Morris&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=UaVsS97tBZHcNsSKrNkE&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCAQsAQwAw

Oh, and a great interview with Ken Busby of the Arts and Humanities Council on KWGS "Studio Tulsa."
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kwgs/news.newsmain/article/0/1/1607334/StudioTulsa/Public.Art.in.Tulsa.A.New.Controversy

If this constitutes "controversial" art in Tulsa, I am scared.  Very scared!  No wonder our public art is typically so stodgy and boring!



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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2010, 05:54:41 pm »

I was very pleased that the councilors spoke up. I don't think anyone is more qualified to speak about art anymore than anyone else, but part of the reason we need art in our life is to spur strong feelings and conversations about art. The pictures they were shown couldn't possibly have truly captured the artist's image nor the final product, but were enough to begin the talking.

Ken did a great job restraining himself while talking to the councilors at their Tuesday meeting as well.
 
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 12:54:25 am by RecycleMichael » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2010, 10:21:29 pm »

Pictures on Google are OK but nothing that really grabs me and screams yes I gotta have this. 
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TheArtist
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2010, 11:37:12 pm »

My first reaction was.... Yikes! thats a lot of money for something that looks like that!  But then after seeing some of her other work in prominent places and museums, I started to get some "context" and began looking at this project in another light.

  When your not in the art world or familiar with an artist and their works, at first glance a lot of art may appear like... "soooo what!? I could do that!"  Heck, even some of the most revered artists of the past Michelangelo, werent the best artists of their day. There were undoubtedly plenty of artists who were much better. They just didnt get the big jobs, the famous jobs, and or not enough of their works survived, they didnt get the "name".  Its not just about quality or likability, or the ability to do something (any artist worth their salt could now paint in the style of Michelangelo, no big deal, easy breezy....I could do that. )  But for an artist to BOTH have an accomplished style that is "theirs" AND to have it be well known, Thats one facet of what can give a piece of art its worth.

Another thing about the "language and reading of art" is context.... I am sure you have all seen art that is basically a sculptural "blob".  The first time one sees this form your likely to go... "What!? I dont get it!?"  

 You can get the most from art, a particular form of art, when you see it in the context of others of its kind.  It speaks to you more clearly when you can compare and contrast it to similar works.  A Madonna and Child painting may be pretty, but you can really get what the artist is saying, the history and time of when the artist lived, their view of the world and so much more when you look at lots of them side by side.  For then the DIFFERENCES become apparent, differences you would not see if you did not have the others to compare to, and its these differences that say something. You notice the clothing is different,,,why? The child looking to or away, the hand held this way or that, why did the artist put this or that object in the background, this one is light and airy, this one dark, this one partly nude, etc. etc.  

You get far more of what the artist is saying, what history is saying, by noticing the similarities and differences by comparing and contrasting similar works.  Without this kind of context, you have to understand that your viewpoint is going to be much more shallow and limited.

Back to the "blobs"... There is infinity in what the artist can say, even within the most simple of forms.  This blob is carved out of black granite and is low and very solid looking. Another is light colored and flowing, perhaps with a little blob broken off and sliding away.  And so on. Today we see lots of shiny, silvery, blobs lol. Your more likely to "get it" to get these shapes meanings, emotions, time and place, when you know how to read the language of its contexts.   And the more you learn, the more you can understand and see the different meanings, what it is the artist and history is saying, etc.  And all of this will of course be affected by the viewer and his or her own history and context.

Looking at that rendering of the tiled wall wont tell you as much as it would if you had the artists other works to compare it to,  similar works by other artists in different times and places, etc.  

Art can also be like learning to read works of writing.  First its the languages alphabet, then individual words, then perhaps learning a cute rhyming poem, then growing to understand the complexities and multiple meanings of each word and line in a shakespearean sonnet, or perhaps the joy of the many meanings found in a simple haikou... You cant understand or appreciate any of the latter if you didnt first learn the languages alphabet.  The different; types, forms, languages of art in sculpture and painting, can also be that way.  There are many languages, a line written in Chinese or Sanskrit may look like unintelligible chicken scratch, but we cant get its meaning unless we learn to read it,,, or we can take the word of someone else who has studied the language and let them tell us us what they think the meaning is or whether its good art or bad.

One person may look at a piece of art and not know its alphabet or language and see nothing and judge it to be gibberish, while someone who has studied that particular art forms language may see a LOT.  Not all art can or should be of the same kind, or at the same "grade level".  And even like written stories or poems, nor will we all agree about what its saying or whether we like it.









I am willing to bet, that if more people were to take the time to learn the "language" history and context of this particular piece of art, they would find much to appreciate.  They would see more than gibberish and find their lives richer for having done so.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 11:47:18 pm by TheArtist » Logged

"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2010, 10:36:15 am »

I have to disagree with you RM. Why bring art appreciation down to the level of a city councilor or a plumber or a creatively challenged businessman? It is tantamount to saying that anyone is no more qualified to discuss engineering and physics than anyone else.

It is a discipline that suffers from a lack of respect simply because it is so visible and seemingly easy. In fact, we often see untrained artists and entertainers do spectacular work and think it must be some genetic gift or spiritual gift. It is in fact usually the result of focus, enlightenment and very hard, disciplined work ethics. Artist has expressed that understanding very well.

I would trust my home to be designed and built by architects and engineers. I would trust my banker to help me figure out the best financing methods. I would trust my councilors to make sure my neighborhood is well protected. But I wouldn't dare let them aid me in the choice of my artwork.

At first I found her work reminiscent of the geodesic designs we scratched on to our notebooks when I was in high school. Kind of mod?? But as I perused the other pages I started to see them differently. I would be interested to see what Hometown has to say as well.
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2010, 03:07:56 pm »

Henderson wasn't referring to the original architecture, he was referring what she wants to do with the new ballroom of the convention center:



While I'm all for bringing in cool, recognized artists, this looks like a patio table from home depot.
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FOTD
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2010, 03:14:30 pm »

Agreed....iconography can really ad to a city's public building area....don't tell Buzz bee. Apparently, he has no clue regarding iconography.
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2010, 10:04:49 pm »

I will admit to being artistically challenged.  I can look at something and say so what.  Doesn't mean it's bad art but I still don't appreciate it.

I am a mechanical engineer.  Pretty much anyone who ever made anything mechanical thinks they can be a mechanical engineer.  They are usually wrong. How many people could look at something that I made .100" thick instead of .125" thick and appreciate the difference?  How many people are willing to get the education to know the difference.  Who cares? 

I know I am not an artist.  I have (to me) more important things to do than learn to appreciate (to me) obscure art.  If you enjoy it fine.
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TheArtist
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2010, 12:00:00 pm »

Speaking of engineering and art... I am sure most of us have seen the robotic fish, but have you seen these?

First videos are of flying, robot penguins. They are not on strings or controlled by a person, and fly totally autonimously.  They can sense and learn their environment .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPGgl5VH5go&feature=related

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff9F0qzxUtg

Flying, robotic, air jellyfish....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_citFkSNtk&feature=related

aqua and air jellies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSTJVnf5nyA&feature=related

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"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2010, 01:56:39 pm »

Speaking of engineering and art... I am sure most of us have seen the robotic fish, but have you seen these?

First videos are of flying, robot penguins. They are not on strings or controlled by a person, and fly totally autonimously.  They can sense and learn their environment .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPGgl5VH5go&feature=related

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff9F0qzxUtg

Flying, robotic, air jellyfish....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_citFkSNtk&feature=related

aqua and air jellies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSTJVnf5nyA&feature=related



Pretty slick.  Even I can appreciate that.
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nathanm
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2010, 02:35:12 pm »


This one reminds me very much of a sculpture done by one of my sister's ex-boyfriends. He was obsessed with male genitalia. I could go on, but I doubt anybody is much interested in his nutty linoleum carvings, no matter how 5th grade snickery I make it.
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« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2010, 12:57:52 pm »

I was impressed by the artist's comments about Tulsa's Civic Center when I read an interview with her in the Tulsa World a couple of months back.  Her first comments focused on paying homage to the architect of the Convention Center.  She said that architect was seeing a revival of interest in his buildings and that among other buildings he had created the Kennedy Center.  I thought, why do I have to leave town to find someone that appreciates our classic Mid-Century Modern Convention Center?
 
Apparently there were professionals involved in selecting her work because her work does reflect currents in contemporary art.   She's the kind of artist you might find in an art history book and you would certainly find her in mainstream art periodicals of our day.  

I can reconcile myself to a lot of things I'm not crazy about in Tulsa but I'll never reconcile myself to the amateur animal decorations I see all around town.  The councilors probably would have taken a liking to depictions of animals.

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PonderInc
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« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2010, 04:12:26 pm »

I don't think our City Council should be involved in deciding what constitutes "good" art.  For one, they weren't even judging an actual work of art...just a computer generated mock up.  They didn't see the actual installation with the real materials...not fair.  (I didn't like the BOK Center until I saw it in real life.  So different from the little models and photos that were shown in the paper.)

We know that they hate abstract art, but I think they might discover controversy wherever they look.  Imagine them travelling around Italy.  They'd have to remove all the public art b/c of nudity and offensiveness.  "The Rape of the Sabine Women," for instance...totally inappropriate!  (nudity!  violence!!)  All those gods and goddesses!  (False dieties AND nudity!)  The statue of David needs a fig leaf!  Sensual swans!  Half men, half goats, oh my!  NatureWorks to the rescue!  (Art by committee: bland, unimaginative and lacking originality, but inoffensive to sleepwalkers.)

I don't love Jackson Pollock, but I wouldn't mind having one of his famous paintings in Tulsa.  Same thing for Piet Mondrian.  Why not be open to diversity?  A little something for everyone.  (Right now, when it comes to public art, we have an artistic monoculture--Natureworks!--sort of like driving through hundreds of miles of wheat fields: boring and appealling only to a limited audience!)

Let's be open-minded enough to offer something for everyone.  (A diverse, well-rounded city is economically more viable than a one-trick horse.)

Oh, by the way...although many people are not fans of modern/abstract art, many others are.  A study was conducted to estimate the economic impact of The Museum of Modern art on NYC's economy.  From 2004-2007, the economic impact was estimated to be $2 billion.

That's billion with a B.  Not bad for a museum that shows all that "ugly" art. 
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Conan71
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2010, 04:27:05 pm »

I don't think our City Council should be involved in deciding what constitutes "good" art.  For one, they weren't even judging an actual work of art...just a computer generated mock up.  They didn't see the actual installation with the real materials...not fair.  (I didn't like the BOK Center until I saw it in real life.  So different from the little models and photos that were shown in the paper.)

We know that they hate abstract art, but I think they might discover controversy wherever they look.  Imagine them travelling around Italy.  They'd have to remove all the public art b/c of nudity and offensiveness.  "The Rape of the Sabine Women," for instance...totally inappropriate!  (nudity!  violence!!)  All those gods and goddesses!  (False dieties AND nudity!)  The statue of David needs a fig leaf!  Sensual swans!  Half men, half goats, oh my!  NatureWorks to the rescue!  (Art by committee: bland, unimaginative and lacking originality, but inoffensive to sleepwalkers.)

I don't love Jackson Pollock, but I wouldn't mind having one of his famous paintings in Tulsa.  Same thing for Piet Mondrian.  Why not be open to diversity?  A little something for everyone.  (Right now, when it comes to public art, we have an artistic monoculture--Natureworks!--sort of like driving through hundreds of miles of wheat fields: boring and appealling only to a limited audience!)

Let's be open-minded enough to offer something for everyone.  (A diverse, well-rounded city is economically more viable than a one-trick horse.)

Oh, by the way...although many people are not fans of modern/abstract art, many others are.  A study was conducted to estimate the economic impact of The Museum of Modern art on NYC's economy.  From 2004-2007, the economic impact was estimated to be $2 billion.

That's billion with a B.  Not bad for a museum that shows all that "ugly" art. 

Granted, none of our councilors is known as an avid art collector or credible critic.

It might be simply the councilors polled are concerned about how it looks spending a chunk of money on an outside artist during a budget crunch, right after 131 or how many ever cops were just laid off.  The four councilors quoted represent districts with some sketchy areas in terms of crime.  I don't think Henderson is the sharpest knife in the drawer, and I consider Roscoe to be a friend but he's not as sharp as he used to be. 

Art doesn't seem like much of a priority to a lot of citizens when we are cutting on public safety.  Besides, I happen to know a very good local muralist who could use the income right now.  Wink
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2010, 05:31:58 pm »

Just to be clear:  you can't use the "1% for art" money for anything but public art. 
The “one percent for art” ordinance stipulates that one percent of all construction costs for a public facility be dedicated to the purchase of art for that building. 

I suppose you could fail to collect it and, thus, NOT use it for art... but you couldn't collect it and use it to fund something else.  It's completely irrelevent to Tulsa's budget woes...except that high quality public art can be an asset to a city that wants to improve its quality of life, increase tourism, and be more appealing to people considering moving here.

Tulsa was one of the first cities in the nation to implement the "one percent for art" concept (back in 1969).  Since then, our ordinance has been used as a model for countless other cities throughout the nation.


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