Domestic terrorist

[nathanm]

I still say not enough for that amount of smoke from such a small aircraft which couldn't paint its footprint that large.  I still say there was extra involved.  It looked to me like that entire floor was involved in the fire.

As it quickly would as the paper and other small flammable objects that were strewn about from the physical force of the impact caught fire and spread it hither and yon. Additionally, any excess fuel would likely have been largely aerosolized, causing the initial spread of the fire to be quite rapid and wide.

[Hoss]

As it quickly would as the paper and other small flammable objects that were strewn about from the physical force of the impact caught fire and spread it hither and yon. Additionally, any excess fuel would likely have been largely aerosolized, causing the initial spread of the fire to be quite rapid and wide.

Some of you guys sound like you're trying to convince me.  I'm not.  I still say not enough footprint and not enough fuel.  The force on the wings would have to be specific in order to do what you're stating.  typically these fuel cells rupture in a way that would avoid this.

[nathanm]

Some of you guys sound like you're trying to convince me.  I'm not.  I still say not enough footprint and not enough fuel.  The force on the wings would have to be specific in order to do what you're stating.  typically these fuel cells rupture in a way that would avoid this.

Typically those fuel cells don't slam into steel columns at 150mph.

[Gaspar]

Some of you guys sound like you're trying to convince me.  I'm not.  I still say not enough footprint and not enough fuel.  The force on the wings would have to be specific in order to do what you're stating.  typically these fuel cells rupture in a way that would avoid this.

Did someone see George Bush flee the building just before the explosion?

[dbacks fan]

I still say not enough for that amount of smoke from such a small aircraft which couldn't paint its footprint that large.  I still say there was extra involved.  It looked to me like that entire floor was involved in the fire.

I'm not saying he wasn't carrying more in the cabin space, thats why I said 40 + gallons.

[Conan71]

Some of you guys sound like you're trying to convince me.  I'm not.  I still say not enough footprint and not enough fuel.  The force on the wings would have to be specific in order to do what you're stating.  typically these fuel cells rupture in a way that would avoid this.

Someone may be able to correct me, but I think there still a number of wet-wing aircraft around out there.  Read through the NTSB reports and see how many aircraft explode upon impact.  In this case, add to it fuel being atomized into an open space instead of scattered across the ground or mountain face plus all the flammibles used in building construction and it's quite possible.  That's why fire codes require sprinklers in buildings built with fire-proof materials like steel and concrete, it's the contents that burn not the building, per se.

[dbacks fan]

I found this http://flightopedia.com/piper-pa-24-comanche.htm about the Piper Comanche that similar to the Cherokee, including the fact that the plane could be modified to hold 120 gallons, and the story of a man that flew a modified Comanche from Casa Blanca in Africa to Los Angeles non stop. So it's possible that the plane may have been modified at one time to carry more fuel.

[Red Arrow]

I found this http://flightopedia.com/piper-pa-24-comanche.htm about the Piper Comanche that similar to the Cherokee, including the fact that the plane could be modified to hold 120 gallons, and the story of a man that flew a modified Comanche from Casa Blanca in Africa to Los Angeles non stop. So it's possible that the plane may have been modified at one time to carry more fuel.

120 gallons in a Comanche can all be in/on the wings.  30 gal main, 15 gal aux in the wing each side plus 15 gal each tip tanks.  Comanches have fuel bladders. I believe the Cherokees are a metal tank with nothing special inside like a race car.

[Conan71]

I found this http://flightopedia.com/piper-pa-24-comanche.htm about the Piper Comanche that similar to the Cherokee, including the fact that the plane could be modified to hold 120 gallons, and the story of a man that flew a modified Comanche from Casa Blanca in Africa to Los Angeles non stop. So it's possible that the plane may have been modified at one time to carry more fuel.

Interesting you brought this up on this thread.  This is the particular aircraft I believe you are talking about from a link I posted to a page about the air museum in Liberal, Kansas.  Max Conrad was the pilot.  The "L" shaped aluminum object  between the placard podium and the left wing was the pilot's seat.  Yes, that was an additional fuel tank.  IIRC, all the seats were removed and replaced with fuel tanks.  My flying partner and I refered to this Comanche as a flying gas tank.

[dbacks fan]

Interesting you brought this up on this thread.  This is the particular aircraft I believe you are talking about from a link I posted to a page about the air museum in Liberal, Kansas.  Max Conrad was the pilot.  The "L" shaped aluminum object  between the placard podium and the left wing was the pilot's seat.  Yes, that was an additional fuel tank.  IIRC, all the seats were removed and replaced with fuel tanks.  My flying partner and I refered to this Comanche as a flying gas tank.

Yes, that is the one I was refering to. I spent some time working at Pryor Machine Tool which specialise in aviaton machining, and my father was a mechanical engineer at the old McDonnel/Douglas plant in Tulsa from 1956 until 1987. There are so many things that can be built into an aircraft over it's life span. The Comanche that flew from Africa to Los Angeles took off with a payload 2,000 lbs over it's take off rating, so it is possible that this nut had extra fuel in the cabin, and underwing aircraft have extensive rib and spar reinforcement that he could have been carrying two 55 gallon drums of avgas as a further ammunition per se. The added weight would only be about 900 lbs. So it is concieveable that his flight was premeditated, which would to me rule out an act of desperation, and create the fire that so many are refering to.

[Conan71]

Yes, that is the one I was refering to. I spent some time working at Pryor Machine Tool which specialise in aviaton machining, and my father was a mechanical engineer at the old McDonnel/Douglas plant in Tulsa from 1956 until 1987. There are so many things that can be built into an aircraft over it's life span. The Comanche that flew from Africa to Los Angeles took off with a payload 2,000 lbs over it's take off rating, so it is possible that this nut had extra fuel in the cabin, and underwing aircraft have extensive rib and spar reinforcement that he could have been carrying two 55 gallon drums of avgas as a further ammunition per se. The added weight would only be about 900 lbs. So it is concieveable that his flight was premeditated, which would to me rule out an act of desperation.

I seriously doubt he went to any more trouble than topping off the tanks, but that may all come out after the investigation, I'm sure they are looking into it.  I think we would have seen a lot more deaths in the building if there was more fuel on the plane. 

I'm done beating the horse for now.

[Red Arrow]

..underwing aircraft have extensive rib and spar reinforcement

Have you seen the spar as it goes through the Comanche fuselage?  It's huge.

[dbacks fan]

Have you seen the spar as it goes through the Comanche fuselage?  It's huge.

I will have to take a picture of a portion of the spar from a DC3 or DC4 that my grandfather had made into an ashtray when he worked for Douglas in the 30's.

And yes I agree this is a dead horse until the investigation is concluded.