TPS Bond ..Send Prop.1 back to the drawing board

[MDepr2007]

I'll be voting no to Proposition 1 Tuesday and so far yes to 2 & 3.  
There are too many projects in 1 that do not benefit enough equally. Seriously, press box renovations



Go read the specifics and get the numbers for yourself before voting ,since the media won't do it for you.
http://www.tulsaschools.org/pdf/TPSbondProposal2010.pdf

Oh and $8,000,000 also comes out of Prop. 1 for the Bond Managment Fee

[RecycleMichael]

I am voting yes on this issue and the other three.

It is easy to find a thing or two in any list that you don't think is important, but I believe such shallow thinking is like throwing out the baby with the bath water. There are some much needed improvements on that list you posted and they are important enough for me to support the issue.

First of them to me is the renovation of East Central High School. The schools did a 20 year plan that has led past bond issues to renovate Washington High School in north Tulsa and the building of new Field Elementary in west Tulsa. It is time for east Tulsa to get their needed improvements.

Another area of need this issue supports is the classroom additions to replace trailers used at classrooms. The school closest to our home is Lindbergh that had 200 extra kids show up the first day of school. Children have to run to mobile home type trailers for classes then back between classes. The trailers don't even have bathrooms. I can't imagine having to run in the rain between buildings to do something as basic as going to the bathroom.

I also feel strongly about the improvements to the sports facilities. Face it, school pride achieved through athletic achievements can be a very strong motivator for kids wanting to be there. I saw my alma mater, Will Rogers High, go from state champions in many sports to a school where kids are embarrassed to be associated with the school so much that they no longer participate in anything.

Vote yes. Your property taxes will not go up and schools that work do so much for our future.   

[MDepr2007]

Look at what % the ECHS is out of that.
In the '70s we had what was called pre-fabs at Burbank and Bell , we survived. My kids went the Mitchell and survived the trailers. Besides Mitchell already replaced the trailers years ago ...hmmm
I don't mind aome of the projects in Prop. 1 but I refuse to vote yes just to get a few truely needed things done.

Be a Roper not a Doper and vote "No" on proposition 1...  lol

[RecycleMichael]

I don't mind aome of the projects in Prop. 1 but I refuse to vote yes just to get a few truely needed things done.

I guess we will just have to cancel each other's vote out.

I want great schools. Great schools lower the crime rate, raise property values, and create great communities to live.

[rwarn17588]

It is easy to find a thing or two in any list that you don't think is important, but I believe such shallow thinking is like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

I agree. To vote against what is a pretty long and worthy list because you might find one or two things that are possibly questionable is myopic and stupid. If you keep waiting for perfection, you're going to be waiting for a long damned time.

[Conan71]

+1 to what RM said, though one concern is how high the bond management fee is. I have no idea what is customary. Anyone else know?

I also agree about better sports facilities having a lot to do with school pride. TPS keeps falling further behind the suburban schools in athletic performance and participation. Yes I understand the point of school is education but sports have always been an integral part of the scholastic experience.

The good in prop I far outweighs any negatives I could pick out of it. 

[Markk]

I guess we will just have to cancel each other's vote out.

I want great schools. Great schools lower the crime rate, raise property values, and create great communities to live.

I want great schools also.  But facilities alone won't accomplish that.  To get great schools, you need parental involvement.  Spending on press boxes and tracks, etc. won't get parental involvement.    Some parents are just losers who view school as nothing more than day care.  Change that kind of thinking, and we can achieve great things in TPS. 

[swampee]

I want great schools also.  But facilities alone won't accomplish that.  To get great schools, you need parental involvement.  Spending on press boxes and tracks, etc. won't get parental involvement.    Some parents are just losers who view school as nothing more than day care.  Change that kind of thinking, and we can achieve great things in TPS. 

Your point on parental involvement is dead on. Ive been an educator for 11 years and student success is 90% based upon parents in my opinion. Now saying that the rest of your argument is flawed. The fact is there are tons of great involved parents out there. The problem for TPS is so many of them flock to the suburbs. By making our schools nicer wouldnt is help convince some of those parents to stay? Your point on athletics is also wrong. Do you know how many parents who live in Union, Jenks, or Bixby go to those schools for the nice facilities and athletic programs. It maybe sad but its true.
I teach in an excellent school in the burbs. We have a great staff, students, and parents. But I will be sending my son to TPS. There are some really great schools in TPS. We need nice great schools in Tulsa if we are going to compete with other cities for jobs. People will not want to move here with our current infastructure.

[patric]

Im still on the fence over this, so im looking for some good selling points either way.

On one hand I see money wasted on things like more cameras (yes, they worked so well keeping kids safe in Columbine) but on the other there are some legitimate needs that shouldnt be postponed.
It seems we just cant spend needed money without watering it down with pork.

[MDepr2007]

Say Prop. 1 passes, how does TPS plan to pay for teachers at a new Early Education Center ? How does TPS plan to pay for another teacher in each added pre-k room that would be built. How do they plan to pay the added utilities that the new rooms and building will add?
Isn't TPS having trouble paying the employee's they now have?

Maybe they can use they can use the $8,463,070 thats listed as contingency 

[MDepr2007]

I agree. To vote against what is a pretty long and worthy list because you might find one or two things that are possibly questionable is myopic and stupid. If you keep waiting for perfection, you're going to be waiting for a long damned time.

Yet many of us expect this from our politicians 

[nathanm]

Say Prop. 1 passes, how does TPS plan to pay for teachers at a new Early Education Center ?
...
Maybe they can use they can use the $8,463,070 thats listed as contingency 

Those programs are very well compensated by the federal government. They end up paying for most of the operating cost.

Are you seriously taking issue with a 3% contingency fund? Really? 

Have you ever been involved in any kind of construction, or are you just talking out your donkey?

I'm not particularly excited about seeing $41 a month evaporate out of my budget, but I would like good schools in my city enough to consider it a worthy investment. There are definitely districts that overspend on capital improvements, but TPS is not one of them.

[Steve]

My mind was made up on this issue long ago, so I won't get into any argument about it.  I more or less agree with MDepr2007, and will be voting no.

What really irritates me is the publicity they keep showing on TV and pictures in the paper, scenes of missing floor and wall tiles at ECHS, ceiling tiles askew.  This is just willfull, intentional neglect, shown to encourage a yes vote.  Any competent maintenance man should be able to reset and replace a missing tile or repair a condensation leak.  The schools waste far to much money IMO.

[pmcalk]

Proposition 1 has some good things and some unnecessary things.  I will be voting yes, because the good things, the needed things are very much needed.  Take the Lee School cafeteria.  That may seem surperfluous, but it is extremely important.  The cafeteria was not built to feed the number of children that currently attend the school.  Therefore, lunch must be spread out over several hours in order to accomodate the kids.  Some are going to lunch as early 10:45 (and are starving by the end of the day).  Others have to wait until nearly 1:00.  The breakfast program has difficulty accomodating everyone.  Any teacher will tell you that teaching hungry children just doesn't work.

[OSU]

My mind was made up on this issue long ago, so I won't get into any argument about it.  I more or less agree with MDepr2007, and will be voting no.

What really irritates me is the publicity they keep showing on TV and pictures in the paper, scenes of missing floor and wall tiles at ECHS, ceiling tiles askew.  This is just willfull, intentional neglect, shown to encourage a yes vote.  Any competent maintenance man should be able to reset and replace a missing tile or repair a condensation leak.  The schools waste far to much money IMO.

What was the last Tulsa Public School you have physically been inside? In the past 6 months I have been inside Memorial, East Central, and Will Rogers; the neglect is far from "willful or intentional". How you can sit back and deride the effort to improve the environment in which people try to educate the youth of our city is the part that is willful and intentional neglect.