The Dumb Masses Love Surprises

[heironymouspasparagus]

It was before I found this place, but were Gas and Guid so strident about crossing t's and dotting i's when there was a trillion and a quarter rushed through to bail out the banks and big insurance companies?

Or when we squandered another trillion + on the wrong war in Iraq?  And you do remember that GM and Chrysler were bailed out in 2008 - before the election?

Or when ridiculously irresponsible tax cuts for a handful of the richest population were made that skyrocketed the debt?  And then complained when everyone else got tax cuts last year and called that stimulus a bad idea?

I wish I was as rich as they apparently are.  Then I could complain about the fact that everyone else got the same kind of tax cuts I got 9 years ago.

[JeffM]

It's kinda like arguing with a dining room table.....

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/247151/august-19-2009/barney-frank-refuses-to-talk-to-a-dining-room-table

Can't wait for the Republicans to come up with a worthy opponent for Obama in 2012....

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/zombie_reagan_raised_from_grave

In the interest of bipartisanship.....

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_caught_lip_syncing_speech

[rwarn17588]

It was before I found this place, but were Gas and Guid so strident about crossing t's and dotting i's when there was a trillion and a quarter rushed through to bail out the banks and big insurance companies?

Or when we squandered another trillion + on the wrong war in Iraq?  And you do remember that GM and Chrysler were bailed out in 2008 - before the election?

Or when ridiculously irresponsible tax cuts for a handful of the richest population were made that skyrocketed the debt?  And then complained when everyone else got tax cuts last year and called that stimulus a bad idea?

No.

Next question.

[heironymouspasparagus]

No surprise.

Gotta love the Onion!

Barney is lawn furniture.

[Gaspar]

I see the Moon Bats have arrived.

[rwarn17588]

I see the Moon Bats have arrived.

It still begs the question ... what were you doing when all this other stuff was going on from 2000 to 2008?

[JeffM]

I see the Moon Bats have arrived.

Sorry to interrupt your forum wingnut circle jerk.

Look at the topics/threads posted on this political forum.... a tribute to Planet Wingnuttia.

The TW comments section is more evenhanded..... remarkable feat, congrats, Gassy.

You wanna answer Rwarn's question?

Sound of crickets or smell of rightwing talking points smokescreen in 3 - 2 - 1 ......

[JeffM]

It still begs the question ... what were you doing when all this other stuff was going on from 2000 to 2008?

Blaming the Clintons?

[azbadpuppy]

Blaming the Clintons?

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Awesome.

[Gaspar]

It still begs the question ... what were you doing when all this other stuff was going on from 2000 to 2008?

Not really sure how?  The Iraq war was started under GHW Bush, and continued under Clinton, lobbing bombs from afar.  W just took it to the ground and finished it.  I don't really agree with the necessity of the war either, but in hindsite 50 million people were freed from an oppressive dictator, and are quite happy about it.

The tax cuts were across the board for everyone who made an income.  Yes they favored those who paid more taxes.  They primarily favored those who operated businesses, and small businesses functioning as LLCs.  They helped our economy create jobs very quickly.

The "tax cuts" last year were moronic (both the Bush admins, and the Obama admins), first of all, because they were not tax cuts, they were checks given to people regardless of tax burden.  Payments designed to quell an angry mob.  We can see the result. 



Questions answered.  Back on subject.

[Conan71]

Support for healthcare reform has dropped due to the obfuscation and outright lies about it promulgated by right wingers (and the drug companies and medical device manufacturers, insurance companies are on board since they will get tens of millions of new customers out of the deal) desperate to make sure that the bill doesn't pass. It's the only way they'll have a chance in 2012, and it will help them significantly in the midterms. It also didn't help that the Democrats dropped the public option at the behest of the insurance companies. The concept is pretty popular.

This stupid fear about messing up your employer-provided coverage is probably the biggest lie of all. The bill specifically does not change anything about your existing plan. It ought to. It ought to scrap the whole frakking system. It is irrevocably broken as it is. I know you don't get it because you have insurance at present, but as a young non-smoker, anything with a deductible I can afford is way out of my price range. (I used to have insurance through my SO's work, until she switched to a company that doesn't offer domestic partner benefits) Moreover, I have a pre-existing condition which would likely prevent me from getting coverage for what is most likely to be the biggest health care expense I see in my lifetime.

Besides, tying insurance to employers is stupid. One of my bigger complaints about this bill is that it does nothing to change it.

And are you really arguing that Warren Buffett, a person whose business is insurance doesn't understand insurance? I dare say he's smarter than anybody pontificating on our little forum. If he, as a person who can easily pay cash for any medical procedure he likes, thinks the insurance system is broken, we probably ought to listen to him. As one of the most successful investors of all time, if he thinks that health care is eating up an already unsustainable portion of our economy, perhaps we should listen to him.

The biggest reason Congress doesn't support it as a whole is that literally billions of dollars has been spent on lobbying by the drug companies and medical device manufacturers. They obviously have no interest in reform, as they're raking in the money already. They are the last people we should be listening to on the subject.

I could go on about what I think a better solution than this bill is, but I doubt you're interested in the least.

Support has dropped because healthcare is not the biggest concern to a healthy individual who cannot find work in the first place, and also because I think there are enough people who are skeptical of even more government intervention in our lives.

Warren Buffett's business isn't insurance, it's investing in profitable businesses.  His investment company happens to own some reinsurers and a large auto insurance company.  Vastly different from the health insurance game.  I respect him as an investor but as a svengali on health insurance?

Here's an issue I have with the governement providing benefits through insurance companies by following a pattern I'm seeing:

Right now the government is cutting back on Medicare and Medicaid benefits.  They arbitrarily say they will pay X amount for a given procedure.  In light of this, providers must find ways to shore up the difference, therefore the rates for service and supplies are higher in many cases for cash payers and those who have private insurance.  Once the government dictates what it's willing to pay in "premiums" to insurance companies and there are cuts, where do you think the insurers will turn to shore up the balance sheet with increased claims? Individual premiums will skyrocket to make up the difference.  If you think you can't afford individual coverage now, just wait.  That's not GOP fear-mongering, that's my own take on what will happen if it's structured this way.

Healthcare reform started as a sound-bite to a lot of Americans: "Do you favor healthcare reform?"  Asked as an innocuous question like that 75% or better will say they do, because nearly everyone has had a negative or frustrating experience with healthcare or health insurance.  There's been enough time for discussion to reveal more specifics as to what "reform" means that it's not settling well with voters.  Legislators are turning their backs on it because their constituents don't want what is being offered and if they vote for the bill, it means they may no longer have their cushy job as a Congressman this time next year. 

Obviously you are colored by a bias that if you can't have the same healthcare benefits I do (which is a basic co-pay and deductible type plan) I should not be allowed to have mine, ridiculous:

"The bill specifically does not change anything about your existing plan. It ought to. It ought to scrap the whole frakking system. It is irrevocably broken as it is. I know you don't get it because you have insurance at present, but as a young non-smoker, anything with a deductible I can afford is way out of my price range."

Overhaul an entire system for which 80 to 90% of the population appears to have adequate access and coverage?  This absolutely, as it stands now, does not keep from having unintended (or intended) consequences for those of us participating in employer-sponsored plans, or self-pay type plans, or those who voluntarily choose pay out of pocket for all HC expenses instead of enrolling in insurance or a government program.

Oh, and by the way, I'm definitely interested in hearing what your solutions are so long as it doesn't take the tack of penalizing me for something you don't have.

[guido911]

It still begs the question ... what were you doing when all this other stuff was going on from 2000 to 2008?

We had this little thing going on:



This man was unavailable to comment on your post:

[guido911]

Sorry to interrupt your forum wingnut circle jerk.

Look at the topics/threads posted on this political forum.... a tribute to Planet Wingnuttia.

The TW comments section is more evenhanded..... remarkable feat, congrats, Gassy.

Thanks for your critique of this forum. I was up all night wondering what your opinion was.

[JeffM]

A responsible Republican party would have rolled back the Bush tax cuts to fund the war on terror.
But they didn't.  They could have attempted to find sources of funding for the medicare prescription drug benefit... but they didn't.
Why?

Because, in the words of military-industrial chickenhawk and federal budget pantywaist Dick Cheney,

"Deficits don't matter."

[JeffM]

Thanks for your critique of this forum. I was up all night wondering what your opinion was.

Back at you, freeper boy.