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Dewey/Terry - Lying or out of touch?

Started by sgrizzle, March 10, 2010, 10:01:55 AM

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 So... is Dewey/Terry just completely out of touch with reality or lying?

Out of touch
3 (15.8%)
Lying
15 (78.9%)
Other (please explain)
1 (5.3%)

Total Members Voted: 14

sgrizzle

Quote from: Conan71 on March 12, 2010, 10:00:32 AM
You don't think this show-down wasn't coming even with Mayor Taylor?  I could be entirely wrong, but I think this might have more to do with trying to merge some city and county services, especially law enforcement, not busting unions.  Why else would Mayor Bartlet (sic) have brought in Jordan and Simonson from the county, screwed with the PD, but pretty much left the FD alone?  I know, total troofer stuff.

You knew this was coming:



But in all actuality, you may be right, esp considering your comment about the fire department when you take into account this story:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=334&articleid=20100107_11_A1_Cityof473546

rwarn17588

#16
Quote from: Conan71 on March 12, 2010, 10:00:32 AM
You don't think this show-down wasn't coming even with Mayor Taylor?  

I doubt it, considering that she gave big raises to the police and fire unions a couple of years ago. That doesn't sound like union-busting to me.

I should add that I'm not always against union-busting. I sort of take it on a case-by-case basis. If you have a union such as the Tulsa FOP that's squandered a ton of goodwill and good faith, then you're ripe for the hammer.

I just find it ironic that two police officers who post on this forum say they're conservative, then whine when a conservative mayor does conservative things such as busting up a bloated and arrogant union. Talk about voting against your own interests ...

Conan71

Quote from: rwarn17588 on March 12, 2010, 11:02:24 AM
I doubt it, considering that she gave big raises to the police and fire unions a couple of years ago. That doesn't sound like union-busting to me.


She had the money to spend for raises then, as did LaFortune.  Bartlet (sic) was faced with revenue cuts...supposedly.  I truly do believe her decision not to run again had a lot to do with being tired of having a target painted on her back, but I also suspect she saw this coming and didn't want to have to be a party to more abuse in a difficult economic and political climate with the council and the FOP.

Sgrizz- Interesting as I don't think merging the FD's really does a whole lot due to increasing exposure on all the new facilities and as well, ambulance service.  I'm rather skeptical about taking on responsibility for what is essentially a municipal service (fire/ambulance) in other cities in the county.  Do we really need to pick up the payroll and facility costs in outlying communities? Seems like combining the TCSD and TPD would offer the best cost-savings arrangement in terms of merging public safety looking for savings, but what do I know?  I can say for certain though that Commissioner Keith is real big on cutting costs via merging services if at all feasible.
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first" -Ronald Reagan

Bledsoe

Quote from: rwarn17588 on March 12, 2010, 11:02:24 AM
I doubt it, considering that she gave big raises to the police and fire unions a couple of years ago. That doesn't sound like union-busting to me.

rwarn--Are you sure KT gave raises to the PD and FD?--I thought LaFortune negotiated the new contracts with the raises just before the 2006 election.  I thought that was a major reason both unions endorsed him. Dewey has the same contact restrictions that KT did.  I could be wrong, but.............

carltonplace

Quote from: Conan71 on March 12, 2010, 11:42:28 AM
She had the money to spend for raises then, as did LaFortune.  Bartlet (sic) was faced with revenue cuts...supposedly.  I truly do believe her decision not to run again had a lot to do with being tired of having a target painted on her back, but I also suspect she saw this coming and didn't want to have to be a party to more abuse in a difficult economic and political climate with the council and the FOP.

Sgrizz- Interesting as I don't think merging the FD's really does a whole lot due to increasing exposure on all the new facilities and as well, ambulance service.  I'm rather skeptical about taking on responsibility for what is essentially a municipal service (fire/ambulance) in other cities in the county.  Do we really need to pick up the payroll and facility costs in outlying communities? Seems like combining the TCSD and TPD would offer the best cost-savings arrangement in terms of merging public safety looking for savings, but what do I know?  I can say for certain though that Commissioner Keith is real big on cutting costs via merging services if at all feasible.

TCSD and TPD should be merged IMHO which would end a lot of jurisdictional and city/county bickering (re: DL MOSS imbroglio) as well as save some bucks.

It also makes sense (to me) to break our contract with EMSA and put EMR under the TFD with EMVs located in fire houses instead of roaming around/waiting for an emergency call at the local QT. Every utility bill has an emergency services charge of around $4 per month...that seems like a heck of a lot of money that TFD could use to provide a better comprehensive first responder service (instead of dispatching both TFD and EMSA like we do in most cases today).

But I could be wrong.

rwarn17588

Quote from: Bledsoe on March 12, 2010, 12:10:06 PM
rwarn--Are you sure KT gave raises to the PD and FD?--I thought LaFortune negotiated the new contracts with the raises just before the 2006 election.  I thought that was a major reason both unions endorsed him. Dewey has the same contact restrictions that KT did.  I could be wrong, but.............

Taylor hammered out raises of 7 percent for firefighters and 8 percent for police in September and October of 2006. She was well into office by then.

RecycleMichael

Quote from: Bledsoe on March 12, 2010, 12:10:06 PM
I thought LaFortune negotiated the new contracts with the raises just before the 2006 election.  I thought that was a major reason both unions endorsed him.

They didn't endorse him even after he gave them big pay raises and take home cars to the burbs.

They endorsed Randi Miller in the primary, then switched their endorsement to Kathy Taylor for the general election.

The FOP never endorses an incumbent Mayor. Never. No matter how much the Mayor gives in to them during the negotiatons, they always campaign against them. Always.

Power is nothing till you use it.

Conan71

Quote from: RecycleMichael on March 12, 2010, 03:16:17 PM
They didn't endorse him even after he gave them big pay raises and take home cars to the burbs.

They endorsed Randi Miller in the primary, then switched their endorsement to Kathy Taylor for the general election.

The FOP never endorses an incumbent Mayor. Never. No matter how much the Mayor gives in to them during the negotiatons, they always campaign against them. Always.



Who did they endorse in the election just past?  I can't remember now and can't seem to Google it up.
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first" -Ronald Reagan

carltonplace

Not Eric Gomez and Not Bill Martinson

bucuo

Quote from: Conan71 on March 12, 2010, 03:25:21 PM
Who did they endorse in the election just past?  I can't remember now and can't seem to Google it up.
The FOP did not endorse any candidate. TFD endorsed Adelson.

Rico

 http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0310/717691_video.html


Neither one of these fellows is bright enough to get away with much of anything.

I would have thought the point was to impress the feds on our expertise in using the JAG money.

More in depth coverage of this by Ms Lasseck in the Whirled.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100319_11_0_hrimgs174520

RecycleMichael

Mayor's Office employee backs police claims about grant  

By BRIAN BARBER AND P.J. LASSEK World Staff Writers
Published: 4/7/2010 

A Mayor's Office employee backs up the claim of three deputy police chiefs that Chief of Staff Terry Simonson knew long ago about the availability of federal grant money to prevent some officer layoffs and chose not to act on it, the Tulsa World has learned in an investigation. Governmental Affairs Director Stuart McCalman, one of the mayor's at-will employees, passed along information secretly via e-mail to Councilor Bill Christiansen to help guide the councilor through a situation that has triggered a City Council investigation into whether Simonson lied to U.S. Department of Justice officials and councilors.

The World examined hundreds of council e-mails obtained through an open records request.

McCalman claims in one e-mail to Christiansen that he is being set up by Simonson to take the fall and that Simonson was boasting about working closely with Council Chairman Rick Westcott to emerge from the investigation unscathed. "It's not often you get somebody to tell you that they are going to throw you under a bus before they do it," he said in the March 25 e-mail to Christiansen. McCalman told the World on Wednesday that he wrote the e-mails out of "anger and frustration" and intended them to be private.

"The differences I may have with Terry on this particular issue should in no way reflect upon the mayor," he said, adding that Mayor Dewey Bartlett's leadership is what the city needs. "It is my regret that I put Mayor Bartlett in a position of having to address an issue of which he had no personal knowledge because of my failure to address it with him."

Grant knowledge:
McCalman's e-mails claim that Simonson told him he would contend he never heard of the Justice Assistance Grant until January, and that McCalman never provided him the grant information sent by the deputy chiefs in early December.

A City Hall source backs up McCalman's assertion.

"I briefed the mayor and Terry in a budget meeting in their FIRST day in office as to JAG availability and it was made very clear by them at that time that there would be no hiring of officers with any monies, federal or otherwise, at any time in the near future. There are quite a number of witnesses to this," a e-mail by McCalman claims. McCalman's e-mail also states that Simonson told him that he would say the December briefing by the deputy chiefs was not about JAG, but about the Community Oriented Policing Services, or COPS grant. But the deputy chiefs said this week that no COPS funding was available. Former Mayor Kathy Taylor used it all in the rehiring of 18 police officers last fall.

The deputy police chiefs accused Simonson last month of lying to Justice Department officials about having knowledge of the JAG funding and how it could be used. At issue is whether the grant could be used to retain officers rather than having to lay them off and then rehire them. In his e-mail exchange with Christiansen, McCalman wrote: "I can't imagine a scenario short of his job being at stake that Terry will publicly admit any culpability on JAG whatsoever."

Mayor reacts:
McCalman informed Bartlett on Wednesday afternoon about the e-mails after he was approached by the World. Bartlett said it is part of McCalman's job to interact with the council. "It's unfortunate that if he was going to say something about the investigation that he didn't do it face-to-face or in a more private situation. He should know better," he said. But Bartlett declined to comment about the content of the e-mails and said Simonson would not talk to the World because of the council inquiry. "I am very worried that this so-called (council) investigation is now going to be tried in the media," he said. "That would be unfair to all parties. Unfortunately that's probably what's going to happen. This is going to take on a life of its own." Bartlett said he would not fire nor has any intentions of accepting resignations from either Simonson or McCalman. "I have nothing to say against Stuart," he said. "He's a good man. I know Terry is a good man, too."

'Put the fix in':
In McCalman's e-mail to Christiansen, he states that Simonson and Westcott talked about the scope and membership of the council investigative committee. McCalman wrote that Simonson revealed at the mayor's March 22 morning directors meeting that he and Westcott would like the committee to consist of four councilors including Westcott, Christiansen and John Eagleton. A City Hall source corroborated that Simonson made the comment during the meeting.

"Make no mistake, Westcott views his role in this as creating a situation as favorable as possible to Terry and to protect Terry through the committee's actions and council deliberations," McCalman wrote. "As much as they can get away with without being obvious, they are trying to put the fix in," McCalman wrote. Probe will be about facts: Westcott said that no one has tried to exert pressure on him about the probe, and that if Simonson told anyone that, "it's absolutely not true."

"If anyone from the Mayor's Office made those sort of overtures to me, I would probably go public with it," he said. "What is contained in this e-mail goes toward my integrity and my character, and I won't compromise those for anyone." When the deputy chiefs' letter was made public March 19, Westcott told the Tulsa World that the council would launch an investigation because of the "seriousness of the allegations."

Over the following weekend, Westcott said, he exchanged e-mails with Bartlett and Simonson about the inquiry. In response to a question from Simonson about the committee's makeup, Westcott said involving four councilors could expedite the process and bypass the open meeting law. Westcott said he told Simonson and Bartlett that he hadn't discussed the committee with the rest of the council and the details still needed to be resolved. On March 23, a day after Simonson announced details of the committee in the directors meeting, Westcott sent an e-mail to all councilors about his proposal for the four-member committee and said Christiansen agreed to serve.

The council met in executive session March 25 and decided all councilors would participate in a probe conducted by an independent investigator. Westcott said he agreed with the decision because it would "take politics out of it completely." He declined to comment about the other allegations in McCalman's e-mails. "I don't want to make any comments that could lend credence or take away from Stuart's e-mails. I do not want to slant the investigation," he said.

Validated suspicions:
Christiansen, who had voiced concerns about the use of the federal grant money, said McCalman's e-mails to him "validated my suspicions." "The JAG money was clearly being used as a card in their deck to negotiate concessions from the FOP," he said. Christiansen said he found it strange that someone from the Mayor's Office was coming forward to covertly direct him to what was really going on.

"And yet I admired that he contacted me. I think fundamentally he's concerned about the welfare of the city and its public safety," Christiansen said. "I mean, he's in the Mayor's Office where these things are being discussed behind closed doors. He is in a position to know the truth." Christiansen expressed "grave concern" about what could happen to McCalman.

"I would hate to see him retaliated against," Christiansen said. "I hope he can continue to serve. To my way of thinking, he was simply trying to make sure everything was aboveboard." Christiansen said he has "always tried to give the administration the benefit of the doubt." "When they tell us what's going on, I'd like to believe that's the best information they have to give us," he said. "But it appears as though they are sitting around the kitchen table trying to figure out what story to tell. That bothers me a lot. We need to be transparent and not all sitting in a back room smoking fat cigars and plotting what to do next."
Power is nothing till you use it.

fotd

#27
Terry Screwy needs to go. Immediately.

Stupid GOP spooners..it's always about busting the unions. Creeps.

T-town girl

The gang of five was right after all!! Its time for Terry to go before Tulsa taxpayers are swindled out of anymore of our hard earned money!! Question - if Mayor Bartlett was in the first meeting - how is he not to blame along with Terry? ( LIEmonson )
Its time for this to stop - 1,000 jobs lost in the last two days - unemployment in Tulsa 8.1% and OKC 6.7% - these guys need to start caring about Tulsa!!!!

Breadburner

Quote from: T-town girl on April 08, 2010, 08:19:35 AM
The gang of five was right after all!! Its time for Terry to go before Tulsa taxpayers are swindled out of anymore of our hard earned money!! Question - if Mayor Bartlett was in the first meeting - how is he not to blame along with Terry? ( LIEmonson )
Its time for this to stop - 1,000 jobs lost in the last two days - unemployment in Tulsa 8.1% and OKC 6.7% - these guys need to start caring about Tulsa!!!!

You're just a hater Mrs.Adelson.....