Neighborhood Speedhumps

[nathanm]

I could care less if the fire trucks have to get their suspension redone ten times as often if that is what it akes to keep my kids safe.

Fixing the design of the street is a far better solution than speed humps. It will also make the streetscape nicer.

[custosnox]

Fixing the design of the street is a far better solution than speed humps. It will also make the streetscape nicer.

can you be any more vague?   And streetscaping is something that would have much higher costs then speed humps and a few replaced shocks and struts.  While I would love to see this neighborhood overhauled and looking better, I also have to wrangle with reality, which states that it won't happen on our cities current budget.

[nathanm]

can you be any more vague?   And streetscaping is something that would have much higher costs then speed humps and a few replaced shocks and struts.  While I would love to see this neighborhood overhauled and looking better, I also have to wrangle with reality, which states that it won't happen on our cities current budget.

A Google Search for "traffic calming" is a good introduction. Basically, the idea is to make drivers not want to drive so fast, by narrowing the street, creating choke points, reducing sight lines, possibly introducing a center median, and so on. Roundabouts are also a good option.

Aside from a few crazy people who won't slow down for anything at any time, including speed humps, if you make the road feel more constrained.

Edited to add: There are a couple of the mini-roundabouts I'm speaking of in Fayetteville, along with a mess of ridiculous traffic humps speed tables.

[Hoss]

A Google Search for "traffic calming" is a good introduction. Basically, the idea is to make drivers not want to drive so fast, by narrowing the street, creating choke points, reducing sight lines, possibly introducing a center median, and so on. Roundabouts are also a good option.

Aside from a few crazy people who won't slow down for anything at any time, including speed humps, if you make the road feel more constrained.

Edited to add: There are a couple of the mini-roundabouts I'm speaking of in Fayetteville, along with a mess of ridiculous traffic humps speed tables.

OK, so answer me this:  how does making a street narrower make it safer for emergency vehicles?  Or at least any safer than one with the speed tables?  Can you imagine a full-on fire engine trying to travel down a narrowed street residential.  Hell, driving down Lewis from 31st to 51st gives me the heebeejeebees.

[nathanm]

OK, so answer me this:  how does making a street narrower make it safer for emergency vehicles?  Or at least any safer than one with the speed tables?  Can you imagine a full-on fire engine trying to travel down a narrowed street residential.  Hell, driving down Lewis from 31st to 51st gives me the heebeejeebees.

It's not safer for the emergency vehicle, it's safer for the person they're trying to help (the first responder can arrive more quickly) and for the maintenance budget on those vehicles.

The point isn't to make the road dangerous to drive on, the point is to make it uncomfortable to drive dangerously. Wide and straight (or gently curving) residential streets give drivers a false sense of safety due to the good sightlines and relatively large distance between themselves an any obstacles. Designing the road to appear to a driver to be as dangerous as it really is makes them less willing to drive so carelessly.

Properly designed, these traffic calming measures need not appreciably slow emergency response times, as it is still possible to drive quickly down the street, just not comfortable. Other measures are also far more pleasant to both drive on and look at than speed humps or speed tables. They actually improve the public space (widening sidewalks, planting trees, etc) rather than making it appear even more blighted than at present.

FWIW, the fire truck makes it down my narrow residential street just fine. It's usually a single lane, too, thanks to lots of people parking on the street here. And they drive it down my street on the way back from every call, it seems, so it must not be that bad for them.

[Red Arrow]

I was a volunteer fireman in a former life.

Firetrucks don't really go that much faster than regular traffic.  It's too easy to get in an accident and then they would be even later.

[custosnox]

I couldn't sleep, so I did some research on this.  Of the traffic calming measures out there, beyond the speed tables, the only one that I can really see being used here is the choke points, and even that is questionable.  However, if a design could be put in place to use these, the other problem is that choke points generally cost about $14k to install, where speed tables run from $2k to about $4k each.  So as a fiscal concern, I don't really see the choke point being viable.  Other methods really would not be feasible on this street because of the frequency of homes and driveways.  Beyond that, they also have a tendancy to have a prohibitably high cost. 

I also noted that in my research, I found no mention of speed tables, or humps for that matter, causing any undo stress on emergancy vehicles.  The speed tables do slow down e-vehicles, but only at a rate of under 3 seconds per table.   I really don't see the need to place an excessive amount of these devices in, so the effect on response time would be minimul.  There are versions of the tables that would allow larger vehicles such as firetrucks and ambulances to stradel them by having sections out of the device, but these have other problems with them that would have to be taken into consideration. 

In all, I would love to see several measures put in place (there are some area's further away that could benifit from choke points and such) and this made into a lot more pedestrian friendly neighborhood, but with the economical situation now, I wouldn't want to press my luck too much. As it is, even the relativly low cost speed tables might be a pipe dream, but I can only but try.

[Red Arrow]

Speed tables might invite an imitation of the Dukes of Hazzard mini jumps in the younger crowd that hasn't had to replace a suspension yet.

Otherwise, drag racing between speed bumps (or similar) can be great fun.   

[nathanm]

As it is, even the relativly low cost speed tables might be a pipe dream, but I can only but try.

The thing is, speed tables and speed humps are higher cost in the long run, as they require more regular maintenance. They also cause difficulty with street sweeping and snow removal. I have yet to see a city not go overboard with them. Fayetteville "got religion" on this issue some years back and they've gone speed table insane. Installations that were originally a single speed table became three speed tables in a row with an added median.

The one place I find them appropriate are at signed crosswalks. You bring the level of the road up to the level of the sidewalk at the crosswalk so it provides better warning to drivers (both visual and tactile) and makes the crossing more pedestrian friendly.

[Townsend]

I know it's simplistic but would increasing stop signs on the road work?

We have people hauling down our street but they do at least slow down at the loan stop sign 1/2 a block down from my home.

They then proceed to gun it after but they did slow or stop at the stop sign.

I'd think if you increased the stop signs on the street some people would not use the road at all thus making it safer.

[Red Arrow]

I'd think if you increased the stop signs on the street some people would not use the road at all thus making it safer.

There have been a few on TN Forum that have advocated using the non-arterial streets to relieve traffic problems, specifically half-mile roads. None have advocated speeding but fast traffic would be one of those unintended consequences.

[nathanm]

There have been a few on TN Forum that have advocated using the non-arterial streets to relieve traffic problems, specifically half-mile roads. None have advocated speeding but fast traffic would be one of those unintended consequences.

Another job for properly designed streets.

Make 'em so people don't want to drive more than 35mph, and they would still be useful, but traffic would be slow enough to not be dangerous.

Sometimes I wonder how it is that we didn't end up with a mess of dead Marshallese toddlers in the neighborhood I lived in in Springdale. Pretty much everybody would haul down the street at 45-50mph (it was rather wide for a residential street) while the Marshallese toddlers wandered around unsupervised next to the road, yet in the four years I lived there, none of them wandered out into the street and got hit.

It makes me think that people may be expending energy on what is really a pretty minor safety issue. (I know, anecdotes are not data)

[Red Arrow]

Another job for properly designed streets.

Make 'em so people don't want to drive more than 35mph, and they would still be useful, but traffic would be slow enough to not be dangerous.

Sometimes I wonder how it is that we didn't end up with a mess of dead Marshallese toddlers in the neighborhood I lived in in Springdale. Pretty much everybody would haul down the street at 45-50mph (it was rather wide for a residential street) while the Marshallese toddlers wandered around unsupervised next to the road, yet in the four years I lived there, none of them wandered out into the street and got hit.

It makes me think that people may be expending energy on what is really a pretty minor safety issue. (I know, anecdotes are not data)

Maybe the Marshallese toddlers are smarter than American toddlers,  or at least better disciplined.

[Townsend]

Maybe the Marshallese toddlers are smarter than American toddlers,  or at least better disciplined.

Better reaction times?

[nathanm]

Maybe the Marshallese toddlers are smarter than American toddlers,  or at least better disciplined.

It's probably that the Marshallese kids keep the Marshallese toddlers out of the streets because they know if their brother/sister/cousin/whatever got hit by a car they'd be up for an donkey whooping.