Neighborhood Speedhumps

[custosnox]

They have installed stop signs at locations down the street, but unless you put them in at every block, they just become a minor inconvienance to most, and get ran by others that don't really care.  I have noticed that those that don't mind doing sixty through a neighborhood don't care about stopping at stop signs either (in general). 

Properly designed tables should not present problems to snow plows, and only marginally effect street sweepers.  Not that the snow plow would be an issue anyhow.  in the 17 years I have been here, I've never seen a one come down this street.  So that makes it a bit of a moot point anyhow.  As far as the city trying to install more then needs to be, the recent installations that I have seen have been pretty appropriate.  Also, that is why the community (read I here) should stay involved in the process to help insure that what the neighborhood wants is kept in the for front. 

[Conan71]

Speed humps?  Is that like sport f***ing?

[custosnox]

Speed humps?  Is that like sport f***ing?

Uh! thank you mam. Uh! Thank you mam. Uh! Sorry Sam. Uh! thank you mam.

[nathanm]

If you want an annoying, pollution causing bandaid in your neighborhood, that's your perogative, I suppose. All I can do is point out the better options.

If you build a road that looks like a highway, people will want to drive at highway speeds on it. If you build a road that looks like an English country lane, people will want to drive like they're on a country lane. If you build the road like the whole thing is a sidewalk, drivers get scared and creep along at a crawl, if not avoid the road entirely.

[custosnox]

If you want an annoying, pollution causing bandaid in your neighborhood, that's your perogative, I suppose. All I can do is point out the better options.

If you build a road that looks like a highway, people will want to drive at highway speeds on it. If you build a road that looks like an English country lane, people will want to drive like they're on a country lane. If you build the road like the whole thing is a sidewalk, drivers get scared and creep along at a crawl, if not avoid the road entirely.

I keep wondering where this pollution thing comes from. I've seen it several times as a con to speed tables, but nothing to explain this, only that it is air pollution.    Not sure how it can be considered a bandaid though, since that would imply temporary.

I do understand that by changing the street itself can change driving habits, but unless you have actually been on the street and taken everything into consideration as to what it would take to actually implement this, you shouldn't assume that it is the answer.  While, as I said before, some other techniques might work well, there is also the matter of cost.  The members of the neighborhood cannot afford these costs, and we would have to rely on the city.  With the city involved, as much as I would like a revamp of the entire street, I cannot see this actually being approved.  And so that you know, I hav eapplied for "traffic calming", not speed tables in particular.  I will see how things go from here before I start pushing one issue or another.

[nathanm]

I keep wondering where this pollution thing comes from. I've seen it several times as a con to speed tables, but nothing to explain this, only that it is air pollution.    Not sure how it can be considered a bandaid though, since that would imply temporary.

I do understand that by changing the street itself can change driving habits, but unless you have actually been on the street and taken everything into consideration as to what it would take to actually implement this, you shouldn't assume that it is the answer.  While, as I said before, some other techniques might work well, there is also the matter of cost.  The members of the neighborhood cannot afford these costs, and we would have to rely on the city.  With the city involved, as much as I would like a revamp of the entire street, I cannot see this actually being approved.  And so that you know, I hav eapplied for "traffic calming", not speed tables in particular.  I will see how things go from here before I start pushing one issue or another.

It's a bandaid because it doesn't address the actual problem, which is people feeling comfortable driving at an excessive speed due to bad street design. Speed tables only slow drivers down around the speed tables themselves. The increased pollution comes from the constant accelerating and decelerating due to the speed tables. For whatever reason, most people race between them, even when they know they're just going to have to brake again shortly. And being in the middle of the road constantly driven over by traffic, they don't last as long as other improvements will.

Speed tables are a good as a temporary installation until something better is done. They should not be the end goal.

[Hoss]

It's a bandaid because it doesn't address the actual problem, which is people feeling comfortable driving at an excessive speed due to bad street design. Speed tables only slow drivers down around the speed tables themselves. The increased pollution comes from the constant accelerating and decelerating due to the speed tables. For whatever reason, most people race between them, even when they know they're just going to have to brake again shortly. And being in the middle of the road constantly driven over by traffic, they don't last as long as other improvements will.

Speed tables are a good as a temporary installation until something better is done. They should not be the end goal.

I don't think that any one said that it should be.

With that being said though, talk to a parent who has lost a child due to idiots vrooming down these roads and they'll tell you ANYTHING that would have kept their child with them would have been welcome.

[Red Arrow]

I respect residential neighborhoods and basically stay out.  However....
I see a curvy, changing road as a challenge and something to be conquered at something other than a crawl. "Straight and level" may be a skill but it is BORING...

[buckeye]

You and me both, Red Arrow.  I get awful weary of Tulsa streets because there's no interest, just strait and level.  That narrow section of Lewis is nerve-wracking, but at least there's something to keep a driver occupied.  The roads in Osage county would be great for ... ahem ... country lane driving as we understand it, but the surfaces are -terrible- and the residents always give me funny looks that last a long time.

Curvy roads may slow down pickups and Buicks, but for all those that say, "All season tires?  Pshaw!  Gimme the sticky ones," it's encouragement.

Twisty road design is a great idea, but it's impractical - too expensive and even more so if there's an existing 'speedway' to be removed beforehand.  Reality says stop signs and speed bumps/humps/tables.

Oh and people, keep your kids out of the street, for Pete's sake.

[Red Arrow]

Curvy roads may slow down pickups and  most   Buicks, but for all those that say, "All season tires?  Pshaw!  Gimme the sticky ones," it's encouragement.

The Gran Sport, Sport Coupe/Sedan, Grand National options in the Skylark and Regal series usually had factory suspension mods that made them handle reasonably well.  Not a Vette, Porsche, or BMW but as good as any Detroit offering in a similar size.  There were a few years when those options were mostly trim packages.

[buckeye]

but as good as any Detroit offering in a similar size.

Heh heh, damning with faint praise. 

Point taken however!

[nathanm]

I respect residential neighborhoods and basically stay out.  However....
I see a curvy, changing road as a challenge and something to be conquered at something other than a crawl. "Straight and level" may be a skill but it is BORING...

I understand what you mean. I love to drive fast down some deserted dirt roads (paved is fine, too, but dirt is better). You should see the oil pan on my Accord sometime. It's living proof of my former proclivities. (They must have made it out of unobtainium, as it still holds oil despite only barely resembling its original shape)

That said, residential roads with poor sight lines are not the sort that encourage drivers to drive fast, even if they are curvy. The best are curvy roads with good sight lines.

Re-engineering a wide, straight, street to have more curves and whatnot is probably the cheapest sort to redesign. You don't remove the existing street so much as build over it in places with wide sidewalks, bumpouts, pedestrian islands, chicanes, and other obstacles that reduce sight lines and reduce the speed of the vast majority of vehicles.

[Red Arrow]

The "Yale Hill" between 81st and 91st (south) was fun 30 years ago. 

[nathanm]

The "Yale Hill" between 81st and 91st (south) was fun 30 years ago. 

These days, it gets old driving 10 under the speed limit.

[Red Arrow]

These days, it gets old driving 10 under the speed limit.

Which I think is now 40 but used to be 50.