47% of Americans do not Pay Federal Income Tax?

[nathanm]

Play a victim? Where have I played a victim? I just don't want someone who has no clue about the hard work both I and my wife went through to get to where we are by excusing it as luck. You know, we didn't feel lucky passing up having a family while we went to graduate school (oh, while I worked as well) or that we lived as paupers for years in undergrad or that I commuted over 210 miles per day to work to make money for the family.

If your point is that society helped me get to where we are, then I guess those 47% are just darned unlucky, and not underachievers or failures or  just ran into hard times. Luck is BS. Here's a thought, get off your tangential "neighbors got you where you are" riff and talk about real issues. If not, tell me why I should thank you and others with similar positions for my lot in life

There you go again, acting as if I'm somehow insulting your labor by pointing out that there are things beyond our personal control that shape our lives. I'm not excusing your hard work as luck, I'm saying there was an element of luck involved in your eventual success. There was also a lot of hard work. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[JeffM]

It has worked for us during times of unfettered growth.  I fail to see how the debt is sustainable if any sort of plateau is reached in population or economic production.

Some more perspective......

The debate on the National Debt......

[azbadpuppy]

I have a question. Why do people get to claim children for tax breaks? Children cost a lot of taxpayer money. Since having children is a personal choice, shouldn't those who choose to have them pay higher taxes than those who choose not to?

A big part of the reason over 40% of Americans don't pay income tax is the claiming of dependants and available tax credits for having children.

I am a single male, head of household, no dependants. I pay an extremely high percentage of income tax. Doesn't seem fair to me.

I am all for a flat tax system. It seems to be the most fair for the largest amount of people- not to mention the substantial amount of Government resources that could be done away with.

[guido911]

I am a single male, head of household, no dependants. I pay an extremely high percentage of income tax. Doesn't seem fair to me.

Fairness in tax policy will go nowhere in this forum. Do yourself a favor and read some of the posts in this thread, in particular cust pointing out that this country's tax policy is necessary so he can offset child support payments and buy his children birthday presents.

You are right, though. It isn't fair how your decision warrants punishment. You are being forced to pay for the education, safety, medical care, housing, and every other service for the children of those 47% that pay no federal income tax. Don't expect a "thank you" however.

[azbadpuppy]

You are right, though. It isn't fair how your decision warrants punishment. You are being forced to pay for the education, safety, medical care, housing, and every other service for the children of those 47% that pay no federal income tax. Don't expect a "thank you" however.

Hence the reason a flat tax would work well. No deductions, no credits, exemptions, etc. Everyone pays the same proportionately.

I don't mind paying a fair share of education, safety, etc. but I do have a problem paying a disproportionate share, especially when people are being rewarded by the current tax system by having more children.

[guido911]

Hence the reason a flat tax would work well. No deductions, no credits, exemptions, etc. Everyone pays the same proportionately.

Very libertarian of you. Kudos. However, your suggestion will go over like a turd in a birthday cake. Prepare for the cries of "regressive taxation", "the rich ain't paying their fair share", and "working families (again, whatever that is) get screwed again". I agree with you on the the notion of flat tax, although I am more of a fair tax guy.

[azbadpuppy]

Very libertarian of you. Kudos. However, your suggestion will go over like a turd in a birthday cake. Prepare for the cries of "regressive taxation", "the rich ain't paying their fair share", and "working families (again, whatever that is) get screwed again". I agree with you on the the notion of flat tax, although I am more of a fair tax guy.

Don't expect to see me at any tea parties anytime soon 

[guido911]

Don't expect to see me at any tea parties anytime soon 

Understood. At least we agree on tax policy?

[azbadpuppy]

Understood. At least we agree on tax policy?

It appears that way. Funny, huh. We probably agree on more than we think. Ok, I wont push it lol.

[custosnox]

Fairness in tax policy will go nowhere in this forum. Do yourself a favor and read some of the posts in this thread, in particular cust pointing out that this country's tax policy is necessary so he can offset child support payments and buy his children birthday presents.

You are right, though. It isn't fair how your decision warrants punishment. You are being forced to pay for the education, safety, medical care, housing, and every other service for the children of those 47% that pay no federal income tax. Don't expect a "thank you" however.

Just love how you try to demonize me because I do what I have to in order to provide for my kids.  I also love how you claim to have made it to where you are today with absolutely no help from anyone else.  You are so full of it it's not even funny.  And as far as the tax system "offsetting" my child support, tell ya what, why don't you try giving up %50 of your net income and see if you don't look for some kind of help.  While your out of it, go ahead and take out %50 of the remaining net to pay for health insurance.  As far as the whole birthday present thing, until you have to look into your own son's eyes and tell him he isn't going to get anything for his birthday this year because your flat broke, you can kiss my a$$ on the whole issue. 

I personally would have no problem with everyone paying a straight percentage tax on their income.  No matter how much you make, you have to pay %x in taxes.  No tax brakets.  As far as claiming children as dependents, if you ever tired raising kids you owuld understand how much they cost.  And since children are our futurr, they are an investment of the community as a whole. 

[azbadpuppy]

Jus  As far as claiming children as dependents, if you ever tired raising kids you owuld understand how much they cost.  And since children are our futurr, they are an investment of the community as a whole. 

Having kids is a personal choice, as is getting married, or divorced. The costs of these decisions should have no bearing on how much someone pays in income taxes. I don't think it is right that people are rewarded by the tax system by having children, and those who choose not to have them are, essentially penalized.

[custosnox]

Having kids is a personal choice, as is getting married, or divorced. The costs of these decisions should have no bearing on how much someone pays in income taxes. I don't think it is right that people are rewarded by the tax system by having children, and those who choose not to have them are, essentially penalized.

As I said, children are our future.  Without them our society will fail.  The purpose of the tax rewards is not to reward someone for having children, but to ease the burden of childcare.  Think of it this way, you have most likely benifited from these tax reliefs because your parents claimed you as a dependent, which meant more money in the household to provide for you as a child. 

[guido911]

As I said, children are our future.  Without them our society will fail.  The purpose of the tax rewards is not to reward someone for having children, but to ease the burden of childcare.  Think of it this way, you have most likely benifited from these tax reliefs because your parents claimed you as a dependent, which meant more money in the household to provide for you as a child.  

At your neighbor's expense, man you are shallow!!!  Taxes are not supposed to be a form of freakin charity. As for looking into a child's eyes and telling them bad news, you don't ever want to go there with me. As for paying child support, I managed to stay married to my very loving wife so I will not have to pay any support.

[guido911]

Azbad:  the tax code has to balance fairness with its other purpose, which is to encourage behavior that our society values.  Just like buying hybrid cards, or homeownership, our society values child-rearing.  I don't own a home or a hybrid, but see why encouraging both might be good.  

Custonox:  keep your chin up, brother.  Things will get better.

Guido:  The fact that your ideology is internally consistent doesn't make it any less despicable.  I frankly can't believe no one has told you how morally repugnant your behavior has been in this thread.  

Well, let me be the first.  It's disgusting.

How so? You mean, because I believe taxes are supposed to be used to raise capital to run our government and not as a means for people to make money? If that's "morally repugnant" and "disgusting" to you, you are too far gone for a rational discussion. What's more, it's morally repugnant to me that people can with a straight face actually justify taking other people's more for their own use.

[nathanm]

How so? You mean, because I believe taxes are supposed to be used to raise capital to run our government and not as a means for people to make money? If that's "morally repugnant" and "disgusting" to you, you are too far gone for a rational discussion. What's more, it's morally repugnant to me that people can with a straight face actually justify taking other people's more for their own use.

I doubt anybody "makes money" from taxes. You seem to forget that there are a lot more taxes than just the income tax.