47% of Americans do not Pay Federal Income Tax?

[Red Arrow]

Putting our puppets in place of the duly elected and otherwise duly chosen people in places like Iran.  Panama.  Nicaraqua.  Viet Nam.  But we were doing it to fight communism. 

According to a PBS special many years ago on the Viet Nam situation, Ho Chi Minh tried to get US help to kick out the remnants of the "foreigners" (French Indo-China) but the US declined.  Probably due to our alliance with the French.  Then Ho went to the Commies and the rest is pretty well known.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Minh was always a Marxist - since his teens anyway.  That isn't really relevant.  Let's start with WWII, where MUCH like Afghanistan and Iraq, we supported Minh as did USSR through WWII.  When that ended, the French came back and tried to keep the empire together.  This eventually brought us into the mess for NO good reason.  In fact, the French, USSR, British and US got together to make a solution in 1954.  And one of the broken promises was to hold elections.  Which Minh would have easily won.

By late '50s the Communists in the north were supporting the NLF (revolutionaries).  The factions were taking over the south (today's analogy; Taliban in Afghanistan - we supporting then fighting them.)  Then we got into it and the entire time it was in the news through the '60s, we would hear about the atrocities the Viet Cong performed on villagers when our guys weren't around.  I suspect there was some of that, just like there were from our side.  Men are men and when in a war/combat/fight situation, there is no such thing as "civilized behavior".  It's just the way we are.

An interesting thing about our interpretation/reporting of how THEY behaved comes from one of their philosophical doctrines.  Many/most of which were taken directly from Chairman Mao's little red book.

When the NLF entered a village they obeyed a strict code of behaviour. All members were issued with a series of 'directives'. These included:" (1) Not to do what is likely to damage the land and crops or spoil the houses and belongings of the people; (2) Not to insist on buying or borrowing what the people are not willing to sell or lend; (3) Never to break our word; (4) Not to do or speak what is likely to make people believe that we hold them in contempt; (5) To help them in their daily work (harvesting, fetching firewood, carrying water, sewing, etc.)."

[heironymouspasparagus]

I suspect those policies changed over time, too.

[fotd]

The Current ReaganBush Debt is:
$11,898,280,275,824.50 which means that in a total of 20 years, these three presidents have led to the creation of 92.71% of the entire national debt in only 8.547% of the 234 years of the existence of the United States of America.


How else can you pay for this with out printing more money?

[heironymouspasparagus]

We don't pay for it.  We accelerate the inflation of the currency to gain the illusion of "paying" it.

Still don't hear any talk in this nation by either side about reducing spending.  Yeah, I know...we can't do it now.  And won't do it "then".

[nathanm]

Still don't hear any talk in this nation by either side about reducing spending.  Yeah, I know...we can't do it now.

You're right, doing that now would put the economy in the toilet for a while. Hopefully once we withdraw from Iraq and start drawing down the troop levels in Afghanistan, we can save some money by not prosecuting more foreign wars.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I'm not actually really that serious about that part of it.  Anytime is a good time to cut government spending, even if only by a token amount.  Goes to the propaganda effect of things.

Longer term, if we had the self restraint and will to end our Imperialistic Militarism (or Militaristic Imperialism if one is on the other side of the aisle) and slow the insanity of our chase for each "new thing" in consumerism, ethics, and spiritualism (the entire gamut of religions), we could perhaps be a little bit more sane inside our own heads.

But it won't happen.

[Conan71]

I'm not actually really that serious about that part of it.  Anytime is a good time to cut government spending, even if only by a token amount.  Goes to the propaganda effect of things.

Longer term, if we had the self restraint and will to end our Imperialistic Militarism (or Militaristic Imperialism if one is on the other side of the aisle) and slow the insanity of our chase for each "new thing" in consumerism, ethics, and spiritualism (the entire gamut of religions), we could perhaps be a little bit more sane inside our own heads.

But it won't happen.

You know, if you'd drop the Rove/Cheney/Murdoch cabal thing and the Military Imperialism thing, more people would likely engage you in conversation.  100% agreement spending has to be cut prior to taxes being cut.  Problem is, no one wants to be the one to wield the axe in the various bureaucracies and agencies, nor legislators who will say no to lobbyists and their pet projects back home so they can get re-elected.

Take away the incentive for legislators (read: massive amounts of payola) to vote against common fiscal sense and it would start happening.

[nathanm]

Take away the incentive for legislators (read: massive amounts of payola) to vote against common fiscal sense and it would start happening.

So what exactly is it you think should be cut?

[Conan71]

So what exactly is it you think should be cut?

Really shitcan the lobbying industry instead of the token hand slaps they've given, take away contribution slush funds (i.e. PAC's) and further limit monetary and in-kind campaign contributions.  Unfortunately SCROTUS dealt a blow to that concept.

[nathanm]

Really shitcan the lobbying industry instead of the token hand slaps they've given, take away contribution slush funds (i.e. PAC's) and further limit monetary and in-kind campaign contributions.  Unfortunately SCROTUS dealt a blow to that concept.

I'm in full agreement. When we spend money, I would prefer it to be because it's thought to be a good idea by someone other than the industry (or particular locality, although I have no problem in principle with federal funding for deserving local projects) it will benefit.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Stop talking about the reality of today's world??
Hmmm...novel idea.  Then I could be a tea-bagger, too.

It's Militaristic Imperialism.  

How do engaging conversations start without an engaging controversy?  How do we get control of the Congress?  (It has never happened in the history of the country, so would be a novel happening.)  I recommend to un-elect incumbents every time.  Let's start with Jim Inhofe.

Maybe I should drag Coulter's name into the mix?  She is at least as big a liar and as saturated with putrescence.  Remember how she went after the Iraq war widows.  Purely despicable.  Brilliant as a propaganda "big lie", but still despicable.  (Did I mention reprehensible?  Well, that too.)

And yet ALL these are not just revered, but seem to be elevated to near saint hood by good, hard-working, honest people in this country who are truly frustrated by what is going on today.  I am beginning to wonder if the apocalypse adherents are maybe closer to right than I would have imagined.  Good people appear to definitely be deceived by what would manifest as the anti-Christ.  We haven't seen him, yet.  Only minions.

Ok, ok, I don't really believe the Great Deceiver is here.  Still skeptical he will appear.

[Gaspar]

Stop talking about the reality of today's world??
Hmmm...novel idea.  Then I could be a tea-bagger, too.

It's Militaristic Imperialism.  

How do engaging conversations start without an engaging controversy?  How do we get control of the Congress?  (It has never happened in the history of the country, so would be a novel happening.)  I recommend to un-elect incumbents every time.  Let's start with Jim Inhofe.

Maybe I should drag Coulter's name into the mix?  She is at least as big a liar and as saturated with putrescence.  Remember how she went after the Iraq war widows.  Purely despicable.  Brilliant as a propaganda "big lie", but still despicable.  (Did I mention reprehensible?  Well, that too.)

And yet ALL these are not just revered, but seem to be elevated to near saint hood by good, hard-working, honest people in this country who are truly frustrated by what is going on today.  I am beginning to wonder if the apocalypse adherents are maybe closer to right than I would have imagined.  Good people appear to definitely be deceived by what would manifest as the anti-Christ.  We haven't seen him, yet.  Only minions.

Ok, ok, I don't really believe the Great Deceiver is here.  Still skeptical he will appear.

Are you and FOTD sharing? 

Must be some good stuff. 

[Conan71]

Stop talking about the reality of today's world??
Hmmm...novel idea.  Then I could be a tea-bagger, too.

It's Militaristic Imperialism.  

How do engaging conversations start without an engaging controversy?  How do we get control of the Congress?  (It has never happened in the history of the country, so would be a novel happening.)  I recommend to un-elect incumbents every time.  Let's start with Jim Inhofe.

Maybe I should drag Coulter's name into the mix?  She is at least as big a liar and as saturated with putrescence.  Remember how she went after the Iraq war widows.  Purely despicable.  Brilliant as a propaganda "big lie", but still despicable.  (Did I mention reprehensible?  Well, that too.)

And yet ALL these are not just revered, but seem to be elevated to near saint hood by good, hard-working, honest people in this country who are truly frustrated by what is going on today.  I am beginning to wonder if the apocalypse adherents are maybe closer to right than I would have imagined.  Good people appear to definitely be deceived by what would manifest as the anti-Christ.  We haven't seen him, yet.  Only minions.

Ok, ok, I don't really believe the Great Deceiver is here.  Still skeptical he will appear.

Um, Inhofe is last in the rotation, 2012.  Looks like you need to start with Sullivan and Coburn assuming you live in District 1. 

I can play too: Soros/Olbermann/Maddow/Axlerod/etc ad nauseum.

[heironymouspasparagus]

District 1 it is.
And I happen to like Coburn - at least as well or better than most - as I have mentioned many times.
Sullivan - yeah, he is ok, I guess.  Just not real inspiring one way or the other.