Proposed Utica Hospital "Corridor" - Truth to rumors?

[jtcrissup]

I am posting this here from an email I got today and wanted to get the word out and see if anyone on the TN Board has anything to add to shed more light on this (I did not see another related thread, so if one is out there, please let me know). 

Full disclosure, I live in the Swan Lake 'hood, but this would not impact my home directly...although I would hate to see anything like this happen to the houses near Utica, I am most concerned about negative impacts to Swan Lake Park. 

Sounds to me like the developers chose to wait until the comprehensive plan was basically "done" and then tried to slide one in under the door hoping no one would speak out against it.  The below is paraphrased from the email I got from a concerned neighbor:

Very recently I heard a rumor that a proposal was made to PlaniTulsa to create a "hospital corridor" along Utica Avenue between 11th Street and 21st Street which would include condemnation of at least 300 feet of property on the west side of Utica, resulting in the demolition of houses in the Swan Lake and Yorktown neighborhoods (part of the Park and Swan Lake would be likely impacted).

Another source I spoke with stated that John Bumgarner and another developer made a presentation along these lines to PlaniTulsa after the deadline for submissions for the plan.  Bumgarner and another developer have reportedly been purchasing property along Utica Avenue for the purpose of selling it to the City or hospitals for this purpose.

A St. John Hospital trustee has stated that this is not a hospital initiative.  This has not been discussed in any St. John Hospital board meeting.  This is a developer-driven plan.

PlaniTulsa's next meeting is Monday, April 28, and the agenda includes public comment.  If you can, please attend this meeting and speak out againt the the proposed "hospital corridor".

[fotd]

This future hospital stuff goes downtown....

Property rights only for where the home is.

Wondering if the other developer might be H+P. (doubtful but why would they object?)

As for JB? Off with his head.

[Conan71]

As for JB? Off with his head.

Which head?

[waterboy]

Both of them. The little one first. With a standard width of 60-75ft for homes in that area that translates to 5 homes deep from 15th to 21st. The rest of the unpurchased blocks would soon become rental as values drop and employees look for nearby lodging. Five homes deep on both sides of Utica is a lot of housing. If you like what Bumgarner has done from 13th to 15th on Utica, I'm sure you'll like his next maneuver.

As far as St. John's? Does anyone believe that St. John's doesn't know whats happening with properties around their nucleous? Like these folks don't party, golf and benefit together? If they were seriously unknowing, uninterested and supportive of the neighborhood's needs and wants they could immediately promise not to buy them. Think that will happen?

Why didn't we sell the old municipal building to St. John's and let them expand there.

[TheArtist]

If there is truth to this, it doesn't sound good.  When I read the thread title "Utica Hospital Corridor"  I was thinking this was part of what we saw with the 6th street plan.  They had envisioned some larger hospital buildings in that area around Utica.  I would hate to see Swan Lake ruined and find it hard to believe that the neighbors getting wind of something like this wouldnt throw a fit. 

[Conan71]

I friend of mine in the M & E department of St. John's had mentioned to me about six months ago that SJMC was tapped out on expanding outward.  The city would only allow them to build vertically within the confines of where they are at the present. 

What do "non-profit" hospitals do?  They continually reinvest in capital equipment and their facilities.  Building upward isn't practical.  Some things are adding up now...

[YoungTulsan]

sounds like the fix is in.  I'm sure this was some last minute deal to appease the thugs before some of this strong community PlaniTulsa language takes effect.

At what point does development become a hostile, criminal act against the public?  I think if you take the sum of the parts all around Tulsa, it already has.

Are they legally purchasing these properties from willing sellers at full market value?  Or are they talking about eminent domain?  Or worse yet, letting them fall into disrepair slumlord style collecting rent THEN razing them?  Kind of depends on the tactic whether one would consider it "hostile" but in any fashion I would be opposed to it.  Those neighborhoods are Tulsa.

[Rico]

The first mention of this corridor, that I heard, was during the Yorktown vs. Arvest / Bumgarner battle.

It was spoken of as though it was part of a plan that the city was aware of.

Counselor Baker, remember him?, was including this in the Cherry Street traffic study before the changes were made to accommodate future development.

In fact the Medical/Office  building (that has been put on hold) on Utica just to the South of the BA was part of the overall development.

There was speculation back then that the Helmrich and Payne site would be part of it. I never heard of anything South and to the West of Utica.

It makes sense though, a corridor is a corridor, and PlaniTulsa has not changed zoning.

[Conan71]

divide and conquer people....they are playing this town like a fiddle.  Funny how when this stuff is happening to somebody else it is "progress as promised" and "get those tax dollars".....but when it hits a little closer to home it has a different ring to it..no?

Until the city unites as a whole against crookedness such as this, they will always get what they want.

What sort of united front would work to get their attention?  It appears there's a small handful of very powerful developers who are playing with a stacked deck.  I'd love to hear any suggestions, because it sounds like they would like to steamroll over Plani-Tulsa

[fotd]

What happened to the "we wanna be like the big city" mantra?

[sgrizzle]

Ahoy! Thar be trooth here!

Hospitals seek plan-map changes

by: KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer
Thursday, April 15, 2010
4/15/2010 4:27:27 AM

Hillcrest and St. John medical centers are seeking changes to the proposed Tulsa comprehensive plan maps that would allow the health-care providers to expand around their facilities, including into parts of the Swan Lake and Yorktown historic preservation districts.

"They want room for growth," Theron Warlick, a city planner, said Thursday morning. "They've highlighted areas where they are currently purchasing property and asking that the maps" reflect that.

Later in the day, Warlick stood on the front porch of a Yorktown residence and explained the proposed map changes to about 30 people.

"These changes would accommodate expansion of the hospitals in the future and the expansion of medical-related facilities along Utica Avenue," he said.

Mark Radzinski, president of the Yorktown Neighborhood Association, said after the meeting that he's troubled by the hospitals' lack of communication with surrounding property owners.

"Come to us and sit down and say: 'This is what we would like to do. Can we make this work?' But we always find out about it when we find out about something being on agenda for the Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Commission or the Board of Adjustment," Radzinski said.

City Councilor Maria Barnes, who represents the area, encouraged those in attendance to make their concerns known to the Planning Commission.

"We're going against the tide here," she said. "We've got the home builders, the Realtors, the (Tulsa Metro) Chamber who are working these people daily.

"They want these changes to fit their needs," she said, claiming that those interests don't care "about us here and what we've done. We've taken our time for three years to work on this plan."

Representatives for the hospitals were not available for comment Wednesday.

The city is nearing the end of a multiyear effort to update its comprehensive plan, which provides guidelines for the physical development of the city.

The Planning Commission will have the final say on whether the hospitals' map requests are included in the final version of the plan that commissioners will vote on after another public hearing.

On Wednesday afternoon, planning commissioners met for a second time to discuss possible modifications to the final draft version of the plan.

They agreed to several changes related to Small Area Plans, including limiting references to "form," "scale," "rhythm" and other subjective terms.

Commissioners also went to great lengths to again stress that the comprehensive plan is a policy document, not a regulatory document, and that zoning decisions ultimately will be based on the zoning code.

What's next?
The Planning Commission had hoped to reopen the public hearing on the comprehensive plan April 28. However, commissioners have not finished reviewing it.

So on that day, commissioners will meet to continue the public hearing to a date as yet undetermined. They will then hold another special meeting to continue their review of the plan.

That special meeting is scheduled for 1:45 p.m. April 28 at City Hall.

For more information, go online to tulsaworld.com/planitulsa.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100415_16_A9_Hillcr26149

[jtcrissup]

Are they legally purchasing these properties from willing sellers at full market value?  Or are they talking about eminent domain?  Or worse yet, letting them fall into disrepair slumlord style collecting rent THEN razing them?  Kind of depends on the tactic whether one would consider it "hostile" but in any fashion I would be opposed to it.  Those neighborhoods are Tulsa.

I don't think that is their intent (to purchase at full market value).  The house ON Utica/Swan drive was on the market for over a year asking $350K (which is comparable to what others have sold for, so not insane ask price).  It sold after foreclosure for over $100K less than that (well below market value).  I looked at it when it first went on foreclosure thinking there has to be something WRONG with it and could find no fault other than the close proximity to Utica.  You would think the "developer" would have swooped that one up at the foreclosure price if their intent was to buy one at a time until they have all the pieces, meanwhile "slumlording" it into the ground to give good cause for tearing down later.  I think they want to use eminent domain.

I just don't see how/why the City would allow them to touch a HP neighborhood/Park!?! 

Thanks sgrizzle for the TW post...I guess TN scooped them, yet again.

[Townsend]

So the way I'm reading this, it's going to happen.

My guess is most of the intrusions will be for parking or Italianate structures.


I'm curious what else is getting slipped in that we won't find out about until it's all over.

[Conan71]

I'm curious what else is getting slipped in that we won't find out about until it's all over.

Massive quantities of versed...

[SXSW]

I'm curious where exactly they are buying up property.  "Swan Lake" can either mean the lake itself and houses that surround it, which is a protected historic district, as well as the entire neighborhood all the way to Peoria and north to 17th west of Utica and north of 21st.  So the parking lots next to F&M along 19th and the empty H&P property along 21st east of St. Louis would be in "Swan Lake".  That area would be fine for expanding St. John, IMO.  There is also a huge parking lot between 18th and 19th on the east side of Utica adjacent to Swan Lake that could be developed by the hospital.  There are also surface lots on the north side of St. John along Victor and Wheeling in the Yorktown neighborhood.  I really don't see the need for them to tear down any houses so let's hope that's not the route they take.

Up north at Hillcrest there is room for expansion on surface lots on the west side adjacent to St. Louis between 11th and 12th, and also on the east side of the campus including two vacant lots at the SE and NE corners of 11th & Utica.

As someone who is looking at buying a house in Yorktown on Xanthus I am very interested in what direction this goes..