Motor scooters

[sauerkraut]

There could be state laws and city laws to deal with too- something may be fine in one city but illegal in another city- Check with the dealer or the DMV

[tulsascoot]

I think the $800 scooters ARE built in Taiwan.

No, you are ill informed Conan.

Kymco of Kaoshung City, Taiwan is one of the leading manufacturers of motor scooters worldwide. They were taught how to do it by Honda, producing vehicles for them for years before venturing out on their own with their own original designs. Most of the mainland Chinese built scooters are clones of Kymco models, but are crap. Kymco's cheapest model starts around $1500.

All of the Taiwnese manufacturers are producing quality equal to Japanese built products. And I mean equal, not a step below, but every bit as reliable and well crafted as Japanese bikes.

In fact 80% of the world's laptop computers are made in Taiwan because they have a highly skilled workforse, and their dollar is still pretty cheap.

Do some research and you'll find that Taiwanese goods are no longer dollar store items; they are some of the best built equipment you have in your house.

[tulsascoot]

And all of the scooters must pass EPA testing. The only 2 stroke on the road are 50cc, except the Genuine Stella, an Indian built model, and it is a 150cc.

The 50cc pollution is worse than a larger 4 stroke motorcycle, but far far less than a car, due to EPA requirements.

Most scooters are 125cc or larger, and are exceptionally clean burning, especially when compared to what pollution an individual would produce in a car with no passengers.

[Conan71]

None that you can have any effect on other than pressuring AEP to buy/build more renewable and/or nuclear energy. Getting grid power is generally less polluting than having a gas engine. The incremental increase in plant emissions for the one scooter/car/whatever is very low, plus the conversion of heat into useful energy is more efficient in a big power plant than it is in your personal vehicle.

That's not to say there aren't problem. Coal fired plants dump radioactive particles into the atmosphere (all rocks, including coal have some amount of radioactive particles randomly distributed throughout them) and generate rather toxic ash, but they're still better on balance than an oil fired plant, for example.

Red Arrow, the small engines without catalytic converters spew a whole lot more sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, unburned fuel and carbon monoxide than just about any passenger car or light truck engine made in the last 20 years. That's because the catalytic converter converts it all into carbon dioxide, nitrogen, and water. Scooter/motorcycle engines, being much smaller, produce much less carbon dioxide, though. (and even less still because the catalytic converter isn't turning the other pollutants into carbon dioxide)

I was able to find this in regards to the difference in electric vs. small gas engines:

"Cordless electric lawnmowers emit 3,300 times less hydrocarbons, 5,000 times less carbon monoxide (CO), and less than half the carbon dioxide per hour of operation than gasoline engine mowers. Even the newer, more efficient gasoline engines emit 2,000 times more hydrocarbons than electric lawnmowers."


"According to one U.S. Environmental Protection Agency study, the average gasoline mower in one hour emits the same volume of hydrocarbons as a 1992 Ford Explorer driven more than 20,000 miles."

I have no idea if the emissions factor for the electric mower is calculated from the input of the electric plant or not.  Frankly, I'm surprised there is an emission factor for them.  You are talking such low voltage and amperage that charging a scooter or mower won't remotely perceptibly affect the demand at plant level.  I suppose it would if every house in a 200 house development had an electric car, scooter, and mower plugged in at the same time.

[Conan71]

No, you are ill informed Conan.

Kymco of Kaoshung City, Taiwan is one of the leading manufacturers of motor scooters worldwide. They were taught how to do it by Honda, producing vehicles for them for years before venturing out on their own with their own original designs. Most of the mainland Chinese built scooters are clones of Kymco models, but are crap. Kymco's cheapest model starts around $1500.

All of the Taiwnese manufacturers are producing quality equal to Japanese built products. And I mean equal, not a step below, but every bit as reliable and well crafted as Japanese bikes.

In fact 80% of the world's laptop computers are made in Taiwan because they have a highly skilled workforse, and their dollar is still pretty cheap.

Do some research and you'll find that Taiwanese goods are no longer dollar store items; they are some of the best built equipment you have in your house.

Taiwan, China, what's the difference? 

Point taken, Tulsascoot.  I'm not as in tune with motor scooters as I am bigger bikes, or human powered ones.  Other than knowing you can buy restored Vespas from Viet Nam, I'm not really in the loop on them.  Is Kymco the company that has built replicas of the Honda Trail 50's and those variants?

I used to import reproductions of obsolete motorcycle parts from Taiwan and I agree that the quality improved over time.  I still buy a few things here and there from a wholesale house which carries a lot of Harley parts made around the globe.  As the wholesale prices in Taiwan increased commensurate with improvements in quality (both durability and better re-creating the appearance of the original part) the company based in the United States who was behind most of the reproductions started having parts made in India to try and save money.  They had serious heat-treat issues with transmission parts and engine internals like cam gears.  No idea how India has come along in quality, but it soured me quite a bit.  Poland had a very good reputation for leather goods (saddle bags, seats) castings, and forgings.

[Breadburner]

Hey allstars....Just enjoy your scooter and ride it guilt free whenever you want.....!!!

[nathanm]

"Cordless electric lawnmowers emit 3,300 times less hydrocarbons, 5,000 times less carbon monoxide (CO), and less than half the carbon dioxide per hour of operation than gasoline engine mowers. Even the newer, more efficient gasoline engines emit 2,000 times more hydrocarbons than electric lawnmowers."

They'd be even more efficient if we could somehow incent the electric companies that own the transmission infrastructure to improve efficiency. IIRC, on average, something like 40% of the electricity generated in the US is wasted in transmission. I've seen studies that say we could relatively easily halve that transmission loss just in relatively inexpensive equipment upgrades, while a further 10% efficiency could be gained by doing more expensive equipment upgrades.

The least loss, of course, comes from distributed generation where you (or your neighbor) generate much to all of the power you need to charge electric cars, scooters, lawnmowers, and whatnot. There are some pretty neat roof mounted helical wind turbines that would do really well here in Tulsa. They're a lot more tolerant of turbulent flow and changing wind direction, so they don't have to be mounted so far away from trees and other obstructions.

I wish the price would come down some, as I could easily generate enough power to cover most of my electric usage, aside from the electric clothes dryer and the A/C in the summer. It would be nice to sustainably generate all the power I need for my computers, TVs, lighting, and cooking and only buy excess from AEP.

[namingallthestars]

Thank you, everyone, for the advice and information!