What is Going On in Arizona?

[custosnox]

What part of "mere presence in the country is not in and of itself criminal" don't you get? It's illegal to cross the border, it is not illegal to be here.

That makes no sense what so ever.  If it is not illegal to be here, then on what basis does the government deport illegals?  Can you give me a source for this claim?  I have searched for it, but have not found any law that corrilates.  

[guido911]

Interesting article discussing the impact of the new law (illegals leaving AZ?):


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h25Q3xiVr_f2n93eOTQ_KUndXtqQD9FCDCN00

[azbadpuppy]

If an officer walks up to you today and asks for your identification, that is lawful contact.  If he asks during an investigation that too is lawful contact.  There is no change to the law in this part of the bill.  A police officer can walk up to you today in Oklahoma and ask for your identification and you are required to provide it.  Citizen or not.

Okay, which then circles back to the reason the cop asked for your papers to begin with. Until now, cops needed probable cause to stop you. Under this new law it could be any 'reasonable suspicion', which is far more lenient. No crime needed, other than not being white.

[Conan71]

Interesting article discussing the impact of the new law (illegals leaving AZ?):


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h25Q3xiVr_f2n93eOTQ_KUndXtqQD9FCDCN00

Nothing but a bunch of sorry excuses.  Let's face it Guido, they are just a bunch of haters like you and I obfuscating by using logic:

"Kavanagh says day labor is generally off the books, and that deprives the state of much-needed tax dollars. "We'll never eliminate it, just like laws against street prostitution," he says. "But we can greatly reduce the prevalence."

Day laborers do jobs including construction, landscaping and household work for cash paid under the table. Those jobs have been harder to find since the housing industry collapsed here several years ago."

[heironymouspasparagus]

Custosnox.
Nathanm must be really young, cause he just doesn't understand that it IS illegal to be here without proper permission/papers, etc.  I have ex family that had some distant relatives get caught up in that, and yes, they sometimes will prosecute (in certain cases) and yes they can get prison time.

Can you imagine, though, the case load and prison population if all 25million illegals were prosecuted?  We just can't get there from here....

[Conan71]

Can you imagine, though, the case load and prison population if all 25million illegals were prosecuted?  We just can't get there from here....

No, you are right and we've discussed that here before.  I need to do a topic search sometime, I had some ideas for a logical path to citizenship which was not outright amnesty.  We can't make 25mm people immediate citizens of the U.S. without a major log jam either. 

We could have already completed a border wall many times over (I know that makes me hateful for wanting to thumb our noses at Mexico  ) that is something which needs to be done instead of paying lip service to it and passing un-funded bills for it.

[custosnox]

Custosnox.
Nathanm must be really young, cause he just doesn't understand that it IS illegal to be here without proper permission/papers, etc.  I have ex family that had some distant relatives get caught up in that, and yes, they sometimes will prosecute (in certain cases) and yes they can get prison time.

Can you imagine, though, the case load and prison population if all 25million illegals were prosecuted?  We just can't get there from here....

Interestingly enough, while trying to find any truth to that claim (I really don't like to assume) I did manage to find a part of the reason that it is so hard for Mexicans, even more so then other latino's, have such a hard time getting legal visas.  It seems that each country is only allowed so many visas per year for it's immigrants.  So because Mexico has so many trying to enter the country only a small percentage of them are legally allowed to.  Apparantly it also draws a lottery to decide who gets a visa (just saw a small mention of that and not sure how that works).  

[heironymouspasparagus]

Yeah, it is a few thousand per year.  And even if you get in the queue, it is a MAJOR hassle to get here.  I have a close relative who just got through doing it legally and it took several years and major pain in the butt.  He is a citizen and very happy and proud to be so.  And I am thrilled he got it, too.  Good person who will be exceptional asset to this country.  Unfortunately, they won't be living here due to all the RWRE BS they encountered for the 4 years or so this was in process.  Shame, OK could use his help.  (An example of the racism alive and well but simmering quietly in Tulsa I talked about in other post).

Perhaps a guest worker program could be made to work.

I recommend a much more radical approach (of course...) that was advanced over the years, most recently by Ronald Reagan.  We should try to start moving toward getting states of Mexico to join with us and become future states.  And Canada as well.  Of course Canada won't because that would be bad for their overall standard of living.

[guido911]

Racists in Utah, Texas, Ohio, and Maryland following Arizona's example?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20003648-503544.html

[custosnox]

We should try to start moving toward getting states of Mexico to join with us and become future states.  

I've often wondered if this wouldn't be the best way to go, maybe even the cheapest.  However, the lack of infrastructure in Mexico would cause some serious problems on this end.

[Gaspar]

I recommend a much more radical approach (of course...) that was advanced over the years, most recently by Ronald Reagan.  We should try to start moving toward getting states of Mexico to join with us and become future states.  And Canada as well.  Of course Canada won't because that would be bad for their overall standard of living.

We could just join Canada.  Everything is so great there.

[Conan71]

Perhaps a guest worker program could be made to work.

I recommend a much more radical approach (of course...) that was advanced over the years, most recently by Ronald Reagan.  We should try to start moving toward getting states of Mexico to join with us and become future states.  And Canada as well.  Of course Canada won't because that would be bad for their overall standard of living.

We have a guest worker program.  It's ignored largely by employers and moreso by "guest workers".

I don't recall Reagan proposing such a thing.  Not saying he didn't I don't ever remember hearing about it.  That would be nothing short of a disaster. 

[nathanm]

If it is not illegal to be here, then on what basis does the government deport illegals?  Can you give me a source for this claim?  I have searched for it, but have not found any law that corrilates.  

The source is Title 8 of the US Code. Certain classes of people are "deportable," including all aliens who don't have the proper papers. That doesn't make it a criminal offense.

Edited to add: Overstaying a visa, for example, is not a criminal act. A visa overstayer is certainly deportable, but they never committed a crime. Coming here completely without papers and crossing the border out in the desert is a crime. Being here after doing so is evidence of your crime. Being here is still not a crime, except shortly in Arizona, where it will become trespassing under state law.

[nathanm]

I don't think making the casual illegal immigrant into a legal guest worker (or whatever) will fix the uninsured driver problem, here or Arizona.

It won't fix it, no. There will always be twits out driving without insurance. Usually because their driving record is so piss poor their liability insurance rates are unaffordable. Ironic, I suppose.

Nevertheless, as it stands, all illegal immigrants are driving around uninsured. If it was possible for them to be licensed and insured, I have a sneaking suspicion there would be better compliance with the law, although as you rightly point out, not 100%.

[Conan71]

The source is Title 8 of the US Code. Certain classes of people are "deportable," including all aliens who don't have the proper papers. That doesn't make it a criminal offense.

Edited to add: Overstaying a visa, for example, is not a criminal act. A visa overstayer is certainly deportable, but they never committed a crime. Coming here completely without papers and crossing the border out in the desert is a crime. Being here after doing so is evidence of your crime. Being here is still not a crime, except shortly in Arizona, where it will become trespassing under state law.

You are correct, it is not a "criminal act" it is a "civil violation" of the INA.  A person who overstays their visa is considered an "unlawful alien".