What is Going On in Arizona?

[azbadpuppy]

If you lose your life in an accident, and the person at fault is here illegaly,(and they actually capture and arrest, try and convict that person) becuse the fact that they were in the US illegaly will take years to prove becuse they are given a pass, while a family member or loved one is dead. It's the same as if you go to Mexico and are seriously injured there, you may die before you get back to the US. I live in a border state, and not through some govt or web based fear do I concern myself with going across the border. Unless you have lived in an area like AZ, or parts of TX, NM, or played the Tom Cruise roll in "Loosing It" in Tijuana, I don't think that you know what's going on here. It's not don't cross, it's open warfare.

How often do you cross the border? I spend 3 months of my year in Mexico for business, from Sonora to Tijuana to the southern tip of Baja and have NEVER had even so much as a threatening look from anyone in Mexico. I live in downtown Phoenix, in a very mixed ethnic neighborhood and again have no problems. In fact, the only time I seem to come across any type of conflict is when I drive to the East Valley or Scottsdale (predominantly white) and have to deal with angry, entitled white people and their road rage.

The danger hype about Mexico is exactly that- hype. There are people being killed, and about 99.9 percent of those are caught up in the drug wars, including the rancher that was murdered in southern AZ a few weeks back. Are there a few areas in Mexico I would not travel to? Of course- just like there are several places in the U.S. and other parts of the world I wouldn't visit either for security reasons. The VAST majority of Mexico is very safe, and the VAST majority of Mexican people are passive, friendly, law abiding folks. In fact, most of the time I feel safer in Mexico than I do in Phoenix where arcane gun laws allow people to now carry concealed weapons, WITHOUT a permit, into BARS.

As I sit writing this, I am in Mexico where I have been for the past week, and have not been kidnapped, shot at, or threatened. The only time I duck for cover is when I see the inevitable gang of drunk obnoxious Americans walking down the street.

[Conan71]

In fact, the only time I seem to come across any type of conflict is when I drive to the East Valley or Scottsdale (predominantly white) and have to deal with angry, entitled white people and their road rage.

fotd, did you hack azbad's account?

[azbadpuppy]

fotd, did you hack azbad's account?

Lol- no it's still me. I just get a bit upset at all the brown people bashing in Phoenix all the time, when I see it quite differently.


Oh and in case anyone is wondering- I'm about as white bread as it gets, and I speak very limited Spanish.

[Gaspar]

Okay, which then circles back to the reason the cop asked for your papers to begin with. Until now, cops needed probable cause to stop you. Under this new law it could be any 'reasonable suspicion', which is far more lenient. No crime needed, other than not being white.

Not correct.  The law specifically states that the officer cannot stop you based on your color or race.

[azbadpuppy]

Not correct.  The law specifically states that the officer cannot stop you based on your color or race.

Where in SB 1070 does it state this? 

Edit: nevermind- found it.

"A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not solely consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona constitution."

I think it's again too vague. Where straight up racial profiling will be discouraged, targeting behavior or clothing is acceptable, as long as race isn't 'solely' used.

[azbadpuppy]

The first of many....

http://www.fox11az.com/news/local/TPD-Officer-Sues-to-Stop-SB1070-92438789.html

[Gaspar]

Where in SB 1070 does it state this? 

Edit: nevermind- found it.

"A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not solely consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona constitution."

I think it's again too vague. Where straight up racial profiling will be discouraged, targeting behavior or clothing is acceptable, as long as race isn't 'solely' used.

So, you're citing behavioral profiling as unjust?

If that's the case I guess there really isn't any reasonable basis for law enforcement to engage anyone.  LOL!

I love you guys.  You're like FOTD light.

[azbadpuppy]

So, you're citing behavioral profiling as unjust?

If that's the case I guess there really isn't any reasonable basis for law enforcement to engage anyone.  LOL!

I love you guys.  You're like FOTD light.

I guess anyone who disagrees with you would be considered as such.

I am stating that the law is too vague, murky, nuanced, etc. on many levels, and most likely will not be able to pass muster when challenged in court.

Behavioral profiling simply opens the door to then allow racial profiling.

[Conan71]

The first of many....

http://www.fox11az.com/news/local/TPD-Officer-Sues-to-Stop-SB1070-92438789.html

So long as an officer asks every "lawful contact" for ID and inquires about their immigration status, I don't see where there is room to claim discrimination or profiling. 

[Gaspar]

So. . . If I was an officer and I saw a guy stumbling down the sidewalk, should I be able to engage him?

[Conan71]

So. . . If I was an officer and I saw a guy stumbling down the sidewalk, should I be able to engage him?

No that's profiling drunks ."...and profiling's wrong" (apologies to Ron White)

[custosnox]

So long as an officer asks every "lawful contact" for ID and inquires about their immigration status, I don't see where there is room to claim discrimination or profiling.  

I think it would be a better indication if during every "lawful contact" asks for ID and inquires about immigration if they fail to produce any kind of proper ID.  It would be a bit redundant to inquire if they have a license or government (military, ect) ID, since you are supposed to be a legal resident to acquire them.

[custosnox]

No that's profiling drunks ."...and profiling's wrong" (apologies to Ron White)

That is only if they are pulling over every car that happens to be traveling down that particular sidewalk that night.

[we vs us]

So. . . If I was an officer and I saw a guy stumbling down the sidewalk, should I be able to engage him?

I dunno . . . did he do something illegal?   

Look, the officer in Azbad's link is putting a perfect point on the problem.  The law states explicitly that stops cannot be made due to race alone, yet the only way to determine that someone's worth stopping is to make a judgment based on their actions or looks.  Since illegals don't necessarily act differently from legals, we're back to judging based on looks.  And what does an illegal look like, officer? 

[Gaspar]

I dunno . . . did he do something illegal?   

Look, the officer in Azbad's link is putting a perfect point on the problem.  The law states explicitly that stops cannot be made due to race alone, yet the only way to determine that someone's worth stopping is to make a judgment based on their actions or looks.  Since illegals don't necessarily act differently from legals, we're back to judging based on looks.  And what does an illegal look like, officer? 

Excellent point.  That officer would be in clear violation, and that would not constitute legal contact.