What is Going On in Arizona?

[Red Arrow]

Where did I say anything about a crime?

I was pointing out that having such large numbers of that demographic, who also happen to vote in large numbers, totally affects the political climate of the state.

The attitude that I perceived from your posts about them is that they are undesirable.

[azbadpuppy]

The attitude that I perceived from your posts about them is that they are undesirable.

Not at all. Well, their votes could be considered undesireable depending on your point of view, but as people, no.

[Red Arrow]

Not at all. Well, their votes could be considered undesireable depending on your point of view, but as people, no.

FWIW I'll accept that explanation.

[Conan71]

Let the illegal immigrants (Mexican, Asian, Eastern Euro, Irish, etc) vote.  Maybe that would drive out the undesireable well-to-do white people from Arizona. That's one way to stop this hatred and racism. :-/

[nathanm]

Unfortunately she's wrong. I have yet to hear anyone explain what AZ's definition of 'lawful contact' is, most likely because it is undefined.

While nobody can say for sure unless a court has ruled on it specifically, the most reasonable construction would be that any time an officer is in contact with someone and the officer made that contact lawfully. So if you are walking down the street and the officer says "hello," that would be lawful contact. If you were sitting in your living room and they break down your door without a warrant, that would not be lawful contact.

So basically any time you are in public, you could be asked for proof of your immigration status, since it's perfectly legal for an officer (or anyone else) to come up to you and strike up a conversation.

[azbadpuppy]

While nobody can say for sure unless a court has ruled on it specifically, the most reasonable construction would be that any time an officer is in contact with someone and the officer made that contact lawfully. So if you are walking down the street and the officer says "hello," that would be lawful contact. If you were sitting in your living room and they break down your door without a warrant, that would not be lawful contact.

So basically any time you are in public, you could be asked for proof of your immigration status, since it's perfectly legal for an officer (or anyone else) to come up to you and strike up a conversation.

Exactly. Which is why lawmakers have now changed the wording. Instead of 'lawful contact' it now states 'stop, detain or arrest'.

Also, the passage which read that law enforcement officers were prevented from 'solely' using race as grounds for suspecting someone is in the country has been changed to remove the word 'solely'.

The changes definitely make the law more clear and explicit in regards to the profiling issue- at least on paper. How it will be executed is another story.

[JeffM]

I guess it's a crime to be a retired white conservative living in AZ.

Or is it a crime to just be:
retired ?
white ?
conservative ?
live in AZ ?

or any combination of the above?

Venting on retired white conservatives living in AZ sounds like profiling to me.  Stereotyping for sure.

Hmmm.  Interesting leap of logic.

Hispanics are afraid the new AZ law will unfairly subject them to racial profiling.
"Venting on retired white conservatives sounds like profiling."
Therefore, white, retired conservatives are just as likely to be victims of profiling as hispanics.  


Equivocation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation#Switch-Referencing

   A feather is light.
   What is light cannot be dark.
   Therefore, a feather cannot be dark.

   All jackasses have long ears.
   Carl is a jackass.
   Therefore, Carl has long ears.

   Evolution is a theory.
   Theories are speculative.
   Therefore evolution is speculative.

   Margarine is better than nothing.
   Nothing is better than butter.
   Therefore margarine is better than butter.

   Something must be done.
   This is something.
   Therefore, this must be done.

[Conan71]

Again, so long as everyone is questioned the same in the citizenship it's not discrimination. I don't recall anywhere in the constitution that peace officers nor members of the military are not allowed to check citizenship nor immigration status. Nor do I recall the clause which says I don't have to provide such information when asked.

[Conan71]

   Something must be done.
   This is something.
   Therefore, this must be done.

That's sort of the way Congress has been operating of late....

[JeffM]

    Something must be done.
   This is something.
   Therefore, this must be done.

That's sort of the way Congress has been operating of late....

I thought of you when I boldfaced that..... I figured it also reflected your political views on how the "George Kaiser River Tax" was handled.... how's that hopey changey Tulsa Landing project thingy workin out these days-- you remember, the project that was going to happen regardless of whether the river tax passed?  

[Red Arrow]

Hispanics are afraid the new AZ law will unfairly subject them to racial profiling.
"Venting on retired white conservatives sounds like profiling."
Therefore, white, retired conservatives are just as likely to be victims of profiling as hispanics.  

Profiling by liberal and hispanic groups as being anti-hispanic.

[JeffM]

So, what are the liberal and hispanic groups going to do?
Deport retirees back to Chicagoland?

[azbadpuppy]

Again, so long as everyone is questioned the same in the citizenship it's not discrimination.

And that's where that pesky 'reasonable suspicion' thing comes into play. Considering the way I look I really don't think I would ever be questioned about my immigration status. I never have been before (except when crossing borders) and don't think that's likely to change.

I easily could be an illegal immigrant from Canada (of which I knew many when living in NYC) since most of them are white and pretty much sound like U.S. citizens. But that's not who this is targeting, and everyone knows it.

So do you really think everyone will be questioned the same? Not likely.

The truth of the matter is that racial profiling has, and will continue to be a problem regardless of this bill. It's a widespread police issue.

[Red Arrow]

So, what are the liberal and hispanic groups going to do?
Deport retirees back to Chicagoland?

I'm sure the liberals and hispanics could find a way to make life miserable for the undesirable, white, conservative, retirees.  Then the WCRs would leave and let the liberals and  minorities have the place.   

[rwarn17588]

I'm sure the liberals and hispanics could find a way to make life miserable for the undesirable, white, conservative, retirees.  Then the WCRs would leave and let the liberals and  minorities have the place.   

Unreasoning paranoia alert.