Contessa Brewer = Idiot

[we vs us]

This man and perhaps as many as 200 other like him could not be reached for comment re: their constitutional rights:

This photo is your own personal Godwin, I swear.  As soon as you post this (predictably) in a national security thread, it's like you immediately lose the argument.

[Conan71]

That's pretty low, even for you, guido. If you can't make a case for doing something (or not doing something) without invoking the memory of dead people, it's a sign you need to come up with better arguments.

Not true.  I think people forget too easily what is at stake when they worry about "profiling" and have more concern for the rights of non-citizens than the rights of citizens.  It's a shocking reminder that some people apparently don't like.

Complacency throughout history has given us such fine leaders as Adolph Hitler and rise to such fine political organizations as the Nazi party.

[guido911]

That's pretty low, even for you, guido. If you can't make a case for doing something (or not doing something) without invoking the memory of dead people innocent Americans murdered by Islamic terrorists...

Fixed that for you. I can understand though how you could make that mistake.

[guido911]

Not true.  I think people forget too easily what is at stake when they worry about "profiling" and have more concern for the rights of non-citizens than the rights of citizens.  It's a shocking reminder that some people apparently don't like.

Complacency throughout history has given us such fine leaders as Adolph Hitler and rise to such fine political organizations as the Nazi party.

As I have said on occasion, I truly believe there are people in this country who are willing to sacrifice their neighbors' or even their families' lives by ignoring/forgetting/coddling these terrorist monsters. I mean, how many more near misses such as this car bombing or crotch bombing and direct hits such as the Fort Hood massacre must we endure while continuing to hear the ramblings of the protection of a terrorist (or even possible) terrorist's rights?

[we vs us]

Posting that pic doesn't do anything for anyone.  It's a cheap way to lessen both your argument and the tragedy of that day.  Because we don't agree with you we should be cudgeled with your personal gif file of 9/11 porn? It's a disgusting use of that day, and disgusting that you should think that we've somehow "forgotten" 9/11 when we disagree about its meanings.  

[guido911]

Posting that pic doesn't do anything for anyone.  It's a cheap way to lessen both your argument and the tragedy of that day.  Because we don't agree with you we should be cudgeled with your personal gif file of 9/11 porn? It's a disgusting use of that day, and disgusting that you should think that we've somehow "forgotten" 9/11 when we disagree about its meanings.  

9/11 porn? Those were Americans that died that day and you call photos of them losing their lives, porn? At least I now I know what kind of a person you really are; a detestable anti-American jerk. And another thing, 9/11 was not a "tragedy". Katrina was a "tragedy". Folks like you cannot distinguish a tragedy from what war and mass murder is have no business criticizing another person's argument.

[Conan71]

Posting that pic doesn't do anything for anyone.  It's a cheap way to lessen both your argument and the tragedy of that day.  Because we don't agree with you we should be cudgeled with your personal gif file of 9/11 porn? It's a disgusting use of that day, and disgusting that you should think that we've somehow "forgotten" 9/11 when we disagree about its meanings.  

Rhetorical question.  How do you feel about crime scene and victim photos being used in murder and rape trials for evidence and during the sentencing phase?

[we vs us]

Rhetorical question.  How do you feel about crime scene and victim photos being used in murder and rape trials for evidence and during the sentencing phase?

I'm cool with it.  It serves dual purposes, one of which I don't like but the other of which I regard as essential to the process.  The part I don't like is it becomes incendiary and an appeal to the emotions when I'd prefer the legal process to be about reason and ration.  The part that is essential is that it's strong evidence of the act.  So yeah, show the pics. I think it can be unsavory at times, but the good outweighs the bad.  

It doesn't have much to do with the 9/11 pics, though.  Those pics aren't evidentiary.  I know what happened and who did it, just like you do.  Guido's misread is that he needs to remind me of his opinion of what happened, but thinks that my disagreement means that I forgot.  I didn't forget.  I remember the day perfectly, and I've been paying attention avidly since then.  I just think his opinion is wrong.


EDIT: And yeah, Guido; used in the context above, that pic is most definitely 9/11 porn.

[Hoss]

I'm cool with it.  It serves dual purposes, one of which I don't like but the other of which I regard as essential to the process.  The part I don't like is it becomes incendiary and an appeal to the emotions when I'd prefer the legal process to be about reason and ration.  The part that is essential is that it's strong evidence of the act.  So yeah, show the pics. I think it can be unsavory at times, but the good outweighs the bad.  

It doesn't have much to do with the 9/11 pics, though.  Those pics aren't evidentiary.  I know what happened and who did it, just like you do.  Guido's misread is that he needs to remind me of his opinion of what happened, but thinks that my disagreement means that I forgot.  I didn't forget.  I remember the day perfectly, and I've been paying attention avidly since then.  I just think his opinion is wrong.


EDIT: And yeah, Guido; used in the context above, that pic is most definitely 9/11 porn.

It reminds me a little of the way Mayor Guiliani used 9/11 at every step on his Presidential campaign.

[azbadpuppy]

Because she, along with Bloomberg, and Rep. Nadler desperately wanted this attack to have come from an American so they can finally point to a teabagger (or some other right wing nutjob) as being violent because as of today that meme is as phony as your inquiry.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/05/03/democrat_rep_nadler_speculates_right-wing_behind_ny_car_bomb_attempt.html

Believe it or not, we are at war with radical Islamic terrorists. Those three bozos do not want to accept that fact.

My, how conveniently you forget about Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, and the like....

It always surprises me when people who live in Oklahoma still seem to think the war against terror only involves radical islamists.

[guido911]

My, how conveniently you forget about Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, and the like....

It always surprises me when people who live in Oklahoma still seem to think the war against terror only involves radical islamists.

I also conveniently forgot about the first WTC bombing, the bombing of the Khobar towers (19 dead), the bombing of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania (More than 250 dead/thousands injured), bombing of U.S.S. Cole (17 dead), and heck, let's throw in the Beirut barracks bombing (nearly 300 dead). I also conveniently forgot about the eco-terrorist organization ELF and the Weather Underground. I left all of those off, as well as OKC, because my point was that an MSNBC host was disappointed that the NYC car bomber was not a right wing nut but rather another Islamic terrorist.

Here is a campaign ad pertaining to profiling:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/05/05/does_this_look_like_a_terrorist_gop_candidate_advocates_racial_profiling_in_controversial_ads_.html

[azbadpuppy]

I also conveniently forgot about the first WTC bombing, the bombing of the Khobar towers (19 dead), the bombing of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania (More than 250 dead/thousands injured), bombing of U.S.S. Cole (17 dead), and heck, let's throw in the Beirut barracks bombing (nearly 300 dead). I also conveniently forgot about the eco-terrorist organization ELF and the Weather Underground. I left all of those off, as well as OKC, because my point was that an MSNBC host was disappointed that the NYC car bomber was not a right wing nut but rather another Islamic terrorist.

Here is a campaign ad pertaining to profiling:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/05/05/does_this_look_like_a_terrorist_gop_candidate_advocates_racial_profiling_in_controversial_ads_.html

You specifically said "we are at war with Islamic terrorists."

My point was that anyone (especially from Oklahoma!) should know that these days, a terrorist attack could just as easily be domestic or foreign grown, Islamic or Christian identified. This one in particular is an example of a domestic terrorist with Islamic ties. He was a legal citizen of the US, was he not?

Which begs to ask the question: What does a domestic terrorist look like?

[guido911]

You specifically said "we are at war with Islamic terrorists."

My point was that anyone (especially from Oklahoma!) should know that these days, a terrorist attack could just as easily be domestic or foreign grown, Islamic or Christian identified. This one in particular is an example of a domestic terrorist with Islamic ties. He was a legal citizen of the US, was he not?

Which begs to ask the question: What does a domestic terrorist look like?

First, I thought Shahzad was born in Pakistan and became a naturalized citizen. Second, I think you are turning the subject away from Contessa Brewer, Mike Malloy, Bloomberg and Nadler either accusing or hoping the Times Square attack was from a right winger to something entirely different (unless you were hoping it was a right winger too).  More to your point, whether the terrorist is domestic or foreign grown is of little significance given that the bottom line is that four mass casualty terrorist acts occurring in less than ten months (I am throwing in the thwarted NY subway bombing) were all perpetrated by Islamic extremists.

[azbadpuppy]

First, I thought Shahzad was born in Pakistan and became a naturalized citizen. Second, I think you are turning the subject away from Contessa Brewer, Mike Malloy, Bloomberg and Nadler either accusing or hoping the Times Square attack was from a right winger to something entirely different (unless you were hoping it was a right winger too).  More to your point, whether the terrorist is domestic or foreign grown is of little significance given that the bottom line is that four mass casualty terrorist acts occurring in less than ten months (I am throwing in the thwarted NY subway bombing) were all perpetrated by Islamic extremists.

Yep, he was a legal naturalized US citizen, who was born in Pakistan. There's lots of those here in the US- and many aren't actually terrorists believe it or not.

"Mass casualty terrorist acts"

....Who died, exactly?

Oh and then there's these, also within the last several months:

The Austin IRS attack.

The Holocaust Memorial shooting.

The Wichita Kansas Anti-abortion shooting.

People died in each one of those domestic terror attacks. So if you're keeping score over the last several months, (or more accurately, since the beginning of the Obama administration) the 'right-wing nut jobs' are actually winning.

[guido911]

Yep, he was a legal naturalized US citizen, who was born in Pakistan. There's lots of those here in the US- and many aren't actually terrorists believe it or not.

"Mass casualty terrorist acts"

....Who died, exactly?

Oh and then there's these, also within the last several months:

The Austin IRS attack.

The Holocaust Memorial shooting.

The Wichita Kansas Anti-abortion shooting.

People died in each one of those domestic terror attacks. So if you're keeping score over the last several months, (or more accurately, since the beginning of the Obama administration) the 'right-wing nut jobs' are actually winning.

And then there's the Arkansas recruiter shooting (1 dead):
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/01/arkansas.recruiter.shooting/

Oh, and who exactly died? How about 14 at Fort Hood. Thanks for the softball.